Recommend
9 
 Thumb up
 Hide
92 Posts
1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 

JKLM Games» Forums » General

Subject: JKLM financially sound? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Mark Rivera
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
designer
badge
LUCHADOR!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So we can have a level of trust, Can anyone confirm that JKLM has paid off its creditors including previous designers, distributors, etc. ?
12 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bruce Murphy
Australia
Pyrmont
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Might I suggest some background reading on how limited liability companies work?

Also, could you please stop posting the same repsonse in every thread for the game?

B>
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Darden
United States
Lake Saint Louis
Missouri
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The JKLM name is enough to keep me away from backing the project. This designer may have gotten paid, but at least one other has not, and that person's game is one of the ones being offered in the bundles. soblue
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Rivera
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
designer
badge
LUCHADOR!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tell that to those who are out of pocket @Bruce. Don't shoot the messenger pal look at JKLM for answers. At least people are a little more informed and can make their choice to back or not and can investigate whether they want to do business with them.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
The bundled games source from The Game Cellar, an OLGS. They would appear to be stock held by The Game Cellar rather than hidden materials from JKLM's prior operations.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Rivera
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
designer
badge
LUCHADOR!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Haven't checked yet but I heard that the Game Cellar was set up by the guy from JKLM.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bruce Murphy
Australia
Pyrmont
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mrivera wrote:
Haven't checked yet but I heard that the Game Cellar was set up by the guy from JKLM.


Well, that sounds a bit like speculation, and this is starting to seem personal. Perhaps every thread on this game isn't the right forum?

B>
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
Rather than vaguely reporting prejudicial rumour or hearsay, how about we stay with the reliable comfort of facts?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bruce Murphy
Australia
Pyrmont
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
clearclaw wrote:
Rather than vaguely reporting prejudicial rumour or hearsay, how about we stay with the reliable comfort of facts?


I heard that 1860 was very close to 1859.

B>
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Darden
United States
Lake Saint Louis
Missouri
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well, here are the facts as I know them:

The Kickstarter says this: "After some 8 years in development, Prune Enterprises and JKLM Games are proud to present Mike Hutton’s second game in the “18xx” series of railway games."

JKLM Games has not paid at least one designer for their work.

This kickstarter is offering that designer's game as part of the reward levels.

I would not support a business that does such things, and I would be fearful as a backer that the funds raised by this particular KS could be used to pay back this debt and potentially others who may be in the same situation.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bruce Murphy
Australia
Pyrmont
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
cbdarden wrote:
Well, here are the facts as I know them:

The Kickstarter says this: "After some 8 years in development, Prune Enterprises and JKLM Games are proud to present Mike Hutton’s second game in the “18xx” series of railway games."

JKLM Games has not paid at least one designer for their work.

This kickstarter is offering that designer's game as part of the reward levels.

I would not support a business that does such things, and I would be fearful as a backer that the funds raised by this particular KS could be used to pay back this debt and potentially others who may be in the same situation.


Really? that's the thing you're most fearful about? I'd be fearful that they'd put the graphic design talent responsible for Phoenicia onto the case.

The kickstarter is offering many run-out-old-game-stock things for sale. Such stock would have been liquidated when JKLM sank in order to pay debts, and typically wouldn't have been sold at full price.

B>
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Darden
United States
Lake Saint Louis
Missouri
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I see you're full of jokes, which is cool. But I stand by my point. Why use the name JKLM when it has such a bad reputation? Why associate yourself with it? JKLM is mentioned on the KS page a few times, so it appears there's a connection here.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bruce Murphy
Australia
Pyrmont
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
cbdarden wrote:
I see you're full of jokes, which is cool. But I stand by my point. Why use the name JKLM when it has such a bad reputation? Why associate yourself with it? JKLM is mentioned on the KS page a few times, so it appears there's a connection here.


JKLM published 1860 twice...

B>
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Darden
United States
Lake Saint Louis
Missouri
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
JKLM failed to pay at least one designer.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bruce Murphy
Australia
Pyrmont
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
cbdarden wrote:
JKLM failed to pay at least one designer.


That's something designers who work with them should consider. jKLM have showed they can make 18xx games.

B>
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
cbdarden wrote:
JKLM Games has not paid at least one designer for their work.


JKLM's publishing arm (I'll call them "JKLM publishing" from here out as I don't recall the actual registered company name) filed for bankruptcy, thereby dismissing all debts. That's one of the things that happens in bankruptcies: people don't get paid and the debts are written off and the slate cleared. Any expectation of additional settlement of past debts which you or that unnamed designer may have, are, well, fantasy. That company and its debts don't exist any more -- one might as well attempt to collect one's pound of flesh from the cremated dead.

Quote:
This kickstarter is offering that designer's game as part of the reward levels.


Sourced from a company that is not JKLM publishing, and quite possibly (I have no data) from a company that bought JKLM publishing's stock as part of the bankruptcy settlement. How such a third party disposes of their property, such as in support of another of their enterprises perhaps such as the 1862 kickstarter, is up to them and has nothing to do with JKLM publishing's prior obligations. Different company, different obligations. In fact, the holders of JKLM's debt may have good reason to be grateful to such a company for providing additional funds to cover outstanding debts before the company was closed.

FWLIW I was also burned in JKLM publishing's bankruptcy (~$200 worth IIRC, so not so much). However I have pledged for three copies of 1862. Why? Because I want the game, I assess the risk as not too large for the modest sums involved, and I believe that people can learn and grow (else we'd all still be in diapers) and should be given the opportunity to show that they have.

Quote:
I would not support a business that does such things...


As you are free to do. You are less free to slander and libel.
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Rivera
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
designer
badge
LUCHADOR!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
JKLM have shown that they cannot be trusted. It's not just the designer who hasn't been paid. It's up to potential backers to decide they can't be trusted. You pays your money you takes your chances. In this case the risk is greater.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Darden
United States
Lake Saint Louis
Missouri
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thank you for your permission to do as I wish. I appreciate it.

I'm also free to state things as they exist, JKLM's name is thrown around quite liberally in the Kickstarter.. that is not a name I associate with confidence in the way businesses are run.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roger Martin
United Kingdom
Twickenham
Twickenham
flag msg tools
Games Cellar was setup and run by Marcus.

I know that JKLM went bust owing people money.

Who now owns Games Cellar and the extent of Marcus' involvement I do not know.

He has a perfect right to setup again. I personally wouldn't invest but it's for each individual investor to decide for themselves.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mrivera wrote:
JKLM have shown that they cannot be trusted. It's not just the designer who hasn't been paid. It's up to potential backers to decide they can't be trusted. You pays your money you takes your chances. In this case the risk is greater.


Codswhallop. JKLM publishing have shown that they were not to be trusted. Is that still true now? You and I do not know.

It is also up to the backers to decide that they can be trusted, or at least to give them an opportunity to reward trust, as a great many of us have. FWLIW I was also burned in JKLM publishing's bankruptcy (~$200 worth IIRC, so not so much). However I have pledged for three copies of 1862. Why? Because I want the game and would like to see it published, I assess the risk as not too large for the modest sums involved, and I believe that people can learn and grow (else we'd all still be in diapers) and should be given the opportunity to show that they have.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Darden
United States
Lake Saint Louis
Missouri
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
clearclaw wrote:
mrivera wrote:
JKLM have shown that they cannot be trusted. It's not just the designer who hasn't been paid. It's up to potential backers to decide they can't be trusted. You pays your money you takes your chances. In this case the risk is greater.


Codswhallop. JKLM publishing have shown that they were not to be trusted. Is that still true now? You and I do not know.

It is also up to the backers to decide that they can be trusted, or at least to give them an opportunity to reward trust, as a great many of us have. FWLIW I was also burned in JKLM publishing's bankruptcy (~$200 worth IIRC, so not so much). However I have pledged for three copies of 1862. Why? Because I want the game and would like to see it published, I assess the risk as not too large for the modest sums involved, and I believe that people can learn and grow (else we'd all still be in diapers) and should be given the opportunity to show that they have.


You are free to do so.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Rivera
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
designer
badge
LUCHADOR!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Due to the lack of transparency from the current JKLM version, people will assume that the they are dealing with the same people.

Just because they filed for bankruptcy doesn't mean they don't have a moral obligation to so the right thing. Hence people are understandably sceptical as to their trustworthiness.

All I say is let the buyer beware.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Rivera
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
designer
badge
LUCHADOR!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
"Codswallop"... How quaint. Love it!

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
cbdarden wrote:
Thank you for your permission to do as I wish. I appreciate it.


Given that I gave no such permission (and couldn't if I tried), uhh, you're welcome?

Quote:
I'm also free to state things as they exist..


That would be a pleasant change.

Quote:
JKLM's name is thrown around quite liberally in the Kickstarter.. that is not a name I associate with confidence in the way businesses are run.


Ahh, so this discussion is about your trust issues?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Darden
United States
Lake Saint Louis
Missouri
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You're talking about trust issues and you're one of the people who got burned before by them? I'm glad you're such a forgiving person.

As evidenced by thumbs so far, it's clear others have the same trust issues I have. Is that not a valid concern when considering their past record? The business failed once, and I have not seen a manifesto or statement about how such failures will be avoided in the future, have you?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.