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Subject: How To Counter Weyland Advance Ice as Gabe? rss

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Paul Nicholas
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I've noticed quite a lot of Weyland Advance decks popping up in my local meta. As a Criminal player I often find it difficult to work around either a heavily advanced Ice Wall or Woodcutter.

Using Femme is useless on the Woodcutter, as it becomes more expensive every single turn and makes the game a money war. And using a Ninja makes it even more expensive. I know the direct counter to a Woodcutter would be a Parasite but I simply do not have the influence to spare to include enough of these to make them worthwhile. And I know Femme directly counters Ice Wall, but to have one of these drop first or second turn makes obtaining and then affording a Femme a slow process. Not to mention using a Femme on an Ice Wall seems like a harsh trade off, and leaves Tollbooths as another problem.

Does anyone have any tips to counter these decks? Is it a matter of racing ie. running at the servers with advanced ice as early and often as possible until they become too strong to run against?
 
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Steven Tu
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The fact is as Gabe, you have Account Siphons and Sneakdoors. An Ice Wall advanced a couple of times took Weyland both time and money to get to. I know Ice wall in front of HQ is a great play against Gabe, but it's certainly not foolproof. Archives! Inside job! And Weyland scoring Bad Publicity against Gabe is often an even harsher for him as Gabe can convert bad pub into real credits through Desperado + ability.

Weyland has one of the worst matchups against Gabe and has to dig in and defend like crazy. So I don't think Gabe should have trouble at all.

If it REALLY becomes a problem in your meta, then definitely pop Parasite in.
 
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Lou Lessing
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You're the fastest runner, they're one of the slowest corps. Race them.
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Gary Kenyon
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You should be able to derez and trash a lot of their Ice, they're a strong Corp, but Criminal early aggro should win. You do have to be careful with the BWBI ability though, you can run into some VERY strong Ice.
 
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mathew rynich
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Parasite if you've got the influence. Deus Ex if it was Oversighted. If you just have the criminal tools then drain the corps credits and shutdown/cresentus+FOA. Seems like an expensive option for a cheap ICE, but if it really turns into a roadblock then you gotta do what you gotta do.
 
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Frederic Bush
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Don't hit him head-on where he's strongest. Hit the servers without advanced ICE. It helps if your deck has Sneakdoor and either Medium or Maker's Eye.

You also shouldn't think about Femme-ing an advanced Ice Wall as a waste of your resources. If Ice Wall has 6 counters on it, it's no longer a 1-cost ICE, it's a 13-cost ICE, so hitting it with Femme is a reasonable trade.
 
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James Henry
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I run 3 x emergency shutdown + 2 x crescentus. Those end up as a waste against icewall since it's only 1 credit to rez it back but it is awesome against tollbooth. Make them spend money. They have a lot of it, sure but keep derezzing their expensive ice and keep the pressure up. Hit HQ directly, hit it via sneak door, if they're protecting those start running R&D heavily. They'll have ice but they'll start spreading thin between remotes and central. Plus derezzing a tollbooth or other expensive ice multiple time is super frustrating for them, for instance I hit a guy and derezzed two of his archers (one natural, one oversight AI).

Forged Activation Order, Crescentus, Emergency Shutdown and Compromised employee are amazing together. (Especially against expensive ice, think about it. I was playing against a jinteki player who had a lot of cash on them surprisingly, but I whittled it down. They needed that wall of thorns so I ran HQ, shut it down, and hit FAO. They had to spend 8 credits and I was lucky enough to have 3x Compromise employee. So the trade was I made a net gain of 2 credits for them rezzing and they lost 8.)

However there are times you can't keep control of their cash, even with account siphon they could hit a hostile takeover and hedge fund and just make a ton of cash in a single turn. That's Weyland for you. At that point I'd worry about buffing my own cash supply and continually pressuring your opponent.
 
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mathew rynich
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Femme advanced ICE walls. With a 1 rez cost and pump-able strength it's going to be hard to destroy/shutdown that ICE. Shutdown Hadrian's wall. It's so expensive to rez. Try and destroy Woodcutter the way I said above.
 
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Gregory Pettigrew
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Ice Wall: Femme Fatale/Corroder
Hadrian's Wall: Forged Activation Orders/Femme Fatale/Emergency Shutdown
Shadow: Femme Fatale/Ninja/Link
Woodcutter: Parasite
Tyrant: Giggle
 
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Eliot Hemingway
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Vamp/Siphon them to zero credits, then Shutdown + Forged Activation Orders on their commercialization cash cow ice. They will be very, very, very sad as you run them into the ground afterwards. Note that I say Vamp rather than Parasite because Vamp is better at hammering the Corp in the late game and, in combination with Opus, produces probably the best rounded and nastiest runner deck currently possible (at least more consistently than Noise).
 
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Ben Benjamin

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Corbeau wrote:
... then Shutdown + Forged Activation Orders on their commercialization cash cow ice. They will be very, very, very sad as you run them into the ground afterwards.


You do realise that Commercialization does not require the ICE to be rezed right?
 
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Alex Rockwell
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If they start advancing some ice thats not on HQ, you can not run it, account siphon them to 0, and forged activation on it. If they are too far advanced and have started commercializing, you have to Femme it, or go elsewhere.
 
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Simon Skov
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jediloser wrote:
Corbeau wrote:
... then Shutdown + Forged Activation Orders on their commercialization cash cow ice. They will be very, very, very sad as you run them into the ground afterwards.


You do realise that Commercialization does not require the ICE to be rezed right?

He's saying they'll be forced to trash the ICE when the runner plays Forged Activation Orders, as the corp would be broke after Vamp/Account Siphon.
 
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Billy Martin
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You should be able to easily beat these decks with Criminal because they can usually only advance one ice, and that ice can only protect one server, so you can just it them everywhere else. Even with the new Weyland ID, it costs so many actions building up that one ice that if you can negate it they usually don't have much left.

If it's Ice Wall or Hadrian's, just use Femme to bypass. If it's a Woodcutter, you should already be ahead because of how expensive Woodcutter is. Since they're probably running Commercialization, one annoying thing you can do is Emergency Shutdown the Woodcutter once it has 4-5 counters and then not run that server for a while.

Keep in mind that it takes a lot of turns to build up those ice. If they have 9 counters on their Woodcutter, then you've been playing at least 9 turns of Criminal vs Weyland where they've been down a click each turn. Why haven't you won yet?
 
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Ben Benjamin

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Got it. I missed the mention of FAO on my first reading.

Unfortunately this move is often kind of hard to pull off though, since ICE wall is the most common target and keeping them off 1 is way more difficult than keeping them off 3 for shadow or 10 for Hadrians
 
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Grant Cain
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Allow me to sum up what everyone else is saying:
The counter to Weyland Advance is to be Gabe and use Gabe-like cards.
Done.
 
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Scott Awesome
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The more advanced that ice wall is, the more attractive aurora looks.
 
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Ben Asher
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Keggy wrote:
The more advanced that ice wall is, the more attractive aurora looks.

That must be what beer goggles are about...
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Eliot Hemingway
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jediloser wrote:
Got it. I missed the mention of FAO on my first reading.

Unfortunately this move is often kind of hard to pull off though, since ICE wall is the most common target and keeping them off 1 is way more difficult than keeping them off 3 for shadow or 10 for Hadrians


Opus + Vamp makes it entirely feasible to reduce any corp player to zero credits. It is a huge pain to deal with as the corp.

Though a huge Ice Wall is better just bypassed with Femme Fatale for one credit per run, honestly.
 
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General Norris
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Find a couple slots for Femme Fatale. If you play Magnum Opus she's easy to play and works wonders. If you don't, you'll need to work a little for it, but it's still great.

It won't save you against Woodcutter , though.
 
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Steven Tu
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Speed is the biggest problem for the advancable ICE decks. I was trying out mine last night and early Gabe hits destroyed all my stuff (3 pointers has GOT to go, or I gotta convert everything to 7 agendas and 3 pointers...), Parasite killed all the rest, and the deck was very sad. It was only a halfway decent game against Shapers.

So, again, I don't see the problem Gabe would have against it unless terrible luck.
 
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Ben Benjamin

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Tuism wrote:
Speed is the biggest problem for the advancable ICE decks. I was trying out mine last night and early Gabe hits destroyed all my stuff (3 pointers has GOT to go, or I gotta convert everything to 7 agendas and 3 pointers...), Parasite killed all the rest, and the deck was very sad. It was only a halfway decent game against Shapers.

So, again, I don't see the problem Gabe would have against it unless terrible luck.


I don't even think they have that good of a game vs Shapers. I was playing agianst my friend's deck last night with my CT deck. CT can punch through and grab anything early with things like Test Run Femmes or Pumped Yog + Tinkering. Later in the game, the Shaper deck can just sit back taking money until they put down an agenda. His ICE didn't scale nearly as fast as my money did, so he never had a save moment to put anything down. I had basically won after the thrid time I took 8 money for my turn.
 
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David Jensen
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I don't see advanceable ICE as a solid strategy. But if I did play it, I'd have a decent amount of upgrades. I want to advance and place a card in a remote with some degree of regularity. The key here is to get the runner to dive into remotes.

I just don't like it because its slow, a little costly and focuses so much on breakers. It reveals a little too much ... for instance you can run on anything advanced and really not fear it's affect.
 
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Steven Tu
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notyetsuperman wrote:
I don't see advanceable ICE as a solid strategy. But if I did play it, I'd have a decent amount of upgrades. I want to advance and place a card in a remote with some degree of regularity. The key here is to get the runner to dive into remotes.

I just don't like it because its slow, a little costly and focuses so much on breakers. It reveals a little too much ... for instance you can run on anything advanced and really not fear it's affect.


Yep, exactly. I'm building one like that. Trying to. The agenda mix for me is the hardest thing to get. Tried to put in 3 pointers and the runner just kills those. Tried to have lower point value and end up with too many. Am going to try 7 agenda mix... see how it goes.
 
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