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Subject: Solo rules rss

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Jamey Philipp
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Not much time left on this. I've heard about some solo play rules being added later. Can I get verification that will happen and also verification it will be better than most 2 player wargame "solo" rules where you just play both sides pretending not to know what you're going to do with the other side.

I've been on the fence about this one since it launched. Its really a big money commitment for a game that probably have limited play opportunity for me. And this is coming from someone one who bought multiple War of the Ring CE's and runs a game group with 650 members.

Don't get me wrong - it looks great! Awesome in fact. But I have a number of 2 player games I'd already like to find the time to play and adding another, especially at such a high price point doesn't seem to make sense for me.

If this game plays really easy and fast (like non-gamers would want to play) and the solo rules were actually fun then I could sway myself to get this.

If its going to be a slightly different COH then I need to pass.

A little help please if anyone knows anything about the solo rules.
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clem seurat
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The only think that i can tell you about solo version so far is:
Nothing is done yet.
We will work on it after HoN is sent to the manufacturer. It will be free to download on our website, print and play version (special solo tokens and rules i guess).
We will work on it with the HoN community to make the best solo rules. So i won't lie to you, it could take some times before we finish it.
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Jamey Philipp
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Thanks for the reply.

I won't mind at all that it will take some time to get finished.

But it needs to do more than just have me play both sides pretending I am not privy to what the other side is going to try to do.

Is there a plan to make the solo rules actually turn the game into a single-player experience that works? or have you not thought that far ahead yet?
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Superhawk2300 wrote:
Thanks for the reply.

I won't mind at all that it will take some time to get finished.

But it needs to do more than just have me play both sides pretending I am not privy to what the other side is going to try to do.

Is there a plan to make the solo rules actually turn the game into a single-player experience that works? or have you not thought that far ahead yet?


My impression is that the plan is to create a set of true solo rules that is more than just "playing both sides", and that, while nothing will be started until after the vast amount of material from the Kickstarter campaign is produced, the solo project will end up being a collaborative effort between Devil Pig Games and Heroes of Normandie fans. But I certainly have no insider knowledge...
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John VanDenBerg
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Don't forget that they also have plans for 3-4 player, and are selling the order markers for that variant as an add-on to the KS.

I'm going to give the demo a run tomorrow night, and if it's as fun as I expect, I will be pledging the Full Monty; Wladislaw plus all add-ons. Pushin' 400 bucks wow
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Allan Doyle

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I played the demo as a solo. What I did was place the order tokens down random. That alone made for an interesting solo game. Give it a try.

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clem seurat
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i'm a game designer at Ubisoft and work on Artificial Intelligence. With this knowledge and the fans solo gameplay experience, i'm sure we will create a great gameplay !
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Rudy Van den Broecke
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DPG works together nicely with the backers for adaptions and suggestions to the normal rules on both the english (BGG) and French version (Tric trac forum).

If they say they will do the same for solo, 3/4 players - I'll believe them. They have listened, responded and gone in dicsucssion with the backers. So lets give them some credit.
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Will Borrall
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Hey, Clem, I've been brainstorming some ideas, along with some multiplayer rules ideas. If you'd like, I can type them up and send them y'all's way for a look.
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clem seurat
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Go ahead, Will.
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Jamey Philipp
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oldparkourhippie wrote:
Hey, Clem, I've been brainstorming some ideas, along with some multiplayer rules ideas. If you'd like, I can type them up and send them y'all's way for a look.


Please post and designers please comment. I am still on the fence....
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Simone C.
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A simple chit pull system and play both side to the best is challenging and fun to me. An AI is something scripted so once you know how it works you could "cheat it" , or you have to expand the AI with something random or a lot more cards to give variety. Hope HoN guys will think something deep and fun, i trust in them
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Christopher
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Mailok wrote:
An AI is something scripted so once you know how it works you could "cheat it" , or you have to expand the AI with something random or a lot more cards to give variety. Hope HoN guys will think something deep and fun, i trust in them


There are some good games out there with AI's that are not really scripted, yet still predictable, but can hardly be cheated. I'm thinking of the AI system of Fields of Fire as an example.

Another idea would be to have a random scripted AI, but to give the AI an edge over the human player in it's scripts, such as the solo system in Frontline D-Day. The disadvantage here is that it will take some time and skill from the human player to overcome the advantage of the AI player and to be able to win.
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Rudy Van den Broecke
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teufen wrote:
Mailok wrote:
An AI is something scripted so once you know how it works you could "cheat it" , or you have to expand the AI with something random or a lot more cards to give variety. Hope HoN guys will think something deep and fun, i trust in them


There are some good games out there with AI's that are not really scripted, yet still predictable, but can hardly be cheated. I'm thinking of the AI system of Fields of Fire as an example.

Another idea would be to have a random scripted AI, but to give the AI an edge over the human player in it's scripts, such as the solo system in Frontline D-Day. The disadvantage here is that it will take some time and skill from the human player to overcome the advantage of the AI player and to be able to win.


You could use both. Making the second an option for advanced players and giving beginners a chance thought the first system.
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Angelus Seniores
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A possibility of increasing the AI's unpredictability is to create several sets of scripts and each turn you have to check which set of scripts it will use.
each set should have a specific goal in mind;
-all out attack
-concentrated attack
-defend
-capture and hold primary objective
-sweep left/right
-destroy strongest enemy unit
-destroy command units or special unit
-retreat/regroup
to name a few
and to ensure some continuity, the set of the previous turn should have a slightly higher chance to crop up.
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JR Wr
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If you want a good idea for random, but directional AI, check out Gears of War.

A card system would be very good IMO.
Random placement of the order tokens.
Followed by a card draw for the enemy.

The card would dictate who the enemy would act that turn.
Hold ground, advance, charge, fall back, retreat.
And could be for different types or groups, ie by Platoon, or squad. By infantry, elites, or vehicles.
Different orders:
If within range then fire at nearest, weakest, strongest, etc
If not within , move towards closest, hold ground, find cover, etc
Each card could even have a die roll on it.
Roll 1d6: 1-3: Fire / advance towards nearest enemy 4-6: suppress nearest squad. etc

And the best thing to implement would be a moral system.
Tank shock and the like
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Jamey Philipp
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This is sounding better. A simpler AI script if/then situation with some random elements would make it worth playing.

Plain chit systems are too random - pure scripts are too predictable.

For a game like this the units have to move in a way that makes sense but isn't 100% predictable.

44 hours to go...hmmmm
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Keith Scholes
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How about a combination of some of the above? A deck of cards which controls the action of each unit to be ordered with individual choices on each card depending on the morale state/quality of the unit. No cards to be discarded and the deck to be shuffled for each new unit ordered. However the exact composition of the deck would be selected as a subset of a master deck. The precise composition to be selected according to an overall set of objectives chosen to match a particular scenario. Thus in a D-Day scenario the allies would have an attack deck, while the Germans would have a hold and defend deck.

The deck would be constructed with varying numbers of particular types of cards according to probabilities of individual actions with a few outliers thrown in. For example an attack objective might have a higher proportion of move forward and fire, a middling number of hunker down and dig in and a few fall back cards (plus whatever others seem appropriate); whereas a hold position might have a greater number of hold and fire from cover cards.

The decks could be reformed when/if particular objectives are obtained or according to other predefined triggers.




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clemens kremer
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Since we are making suggestions :

After the player has placed Order tokens place two Order Token on each Enemy, One face up and One face down. This requires an extra Set of Order Token. Units are activated in sequence according to the face up Token , following normal Rules. Once activated the face down Token is revieled and determines the Units Action.

1-3 If something in LoS Fire, otherwiSe Move on Enemy
4-6 Move on objective
Etc.

The exact breakdown might Change with the scenario and might Be different for different types of Units (officer, Heavy weapon, Vehicle).

The more Units are activated the more predictable the Enemy becomes.

Sorry for Mad uppercase ... Typing from German mobile
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T Hass
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AKDoyle wrote:
I played the demo as a solo. What I did was place the order tokens down random. That alone made for an interesting solo game. Give it a try.



Nice. I did something a slightly different. I pick one German order token and one American, lowest number went first. On a tie I based initiative on the previous round (Americans start with imitative). Then you just make the best move you can. But I admit card play was tricky.

Looking forward to the opponent finder.
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Steven Weller
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I asked the question relating to SoN on the kickstarter page:
_________________________________________________

Hi do you have plans on developing solo rules ?


REPLY:

Devil Pig Games
Jul 5, 2014

yes. Some are already developped by two fans, one in english and one in french. They will translate their rules soon. I just had a look on the french one, that's good. Once they finish that, we will work with them on an official solo rules.
CLem


That's me sold then
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John Sommers
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almost a year. what is the status now?
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Jason Brown
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picoloclem wrote:
The only think that i can tell you about solo version so far is:
Nothing is done yet.
We will work on it after HoN is sent to the manufacturer. It will be free to download on our website, print and play version (special solo tokens and rules i guess).
We will work on it with the HoN community to make the best solo rules. So i won't lie to you, it could take some times before we finish it.

It's been two years since this statement, are the solo rules still being developed? There's a TON of awesome content for HoN, solo rules are really the only thing keeping me from dumping a paycheck into it. Frontline D-Day is the Gold Standard for war game solo Rule IMO, it would be nice to see something akin to that experience.
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sam faraci
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Just ordered the game and was wondering when the official solo rules come out as going by the forums they were announced over a year ago and still nothing.
 
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Lewis Karl
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There are fan-based solo rules published in French in the Echoes Over Normandie fan mag downloadable from DPG site.
 
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