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Subject: Advanced Classes - Speculation rss

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Chad Caughmann
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So the campaign is officially over, and now it's time to ramp up the speculation on topics we don't know much about yet! Based on what Brian has said in some videos, as well as posted here, we know Heroes will have advanced classes available to them in the future. We've heard a little about some of the heroes already. Each hero will have a base class that forks into one of 2 Journeyman classes, which can later be upgraded to a Master Class. So, what will fill in the blanks? (I've tried to fill in the blanks with what has been hinted by Brian so far)

Base Class
Journeyman Class -> Master Class
Journeyman Class -> Master Class

Soldier
Knight -> ?
Blade Dancer/Battle Master? -> ?

Acolyte
Priest -> Saint
Necromancer -> Liche

Archer
? -> ?
? -> ?

Apprentice
Elemental Wizard -> ?
? -> ?

Brigand
Assassin -> ?
? -> ?

Trickster (will the Trickster even have Advanced classes, since the class is exclusive???)
? -> ?
? -> ?

Skald
? -> ?
? -> ?

Druid (Spriggan)
? -> ?
? -> ?
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Jonah Rees
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I think the Brigand does to a thief first and then an assassin. I imagine the Druid's two branches will be one focusing on shapeshifting and another on herbalism. And I think Trickster is getting advanced classes.
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Donny Behne
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The best way to approach this is to take the two areas of that class' strength and then amplify them. For the Acolyte, its pretty easy. On one side you have healing, on the other you have damage. Split them to get Priest and Necromancer.

Soldier
I don't have names but this split would be damage dealer (likely wielding a two handed weapon or two one-handed weapons) and tank, enhancing his taunt and threat growth as well as adding protective skills.

Acolyte
Priest -> Saint
Necromancer -> Liche

Archer
Marksman - an advanced archer, think black ops + sniper
Hunter - add a pet to the class *cough* Conner *cough*

Apprentice
I'm not too sure about this one. I think the obvious choice is enhancing direct damage on one side and debuffs/ongoing damage on the other.

Brigand
One side would be enhancing his stealth skills and allowing him to do increased damage, especially from the shadows. On the other hand you can enhance his ability to debuff the enemy with poisons. Maybe? Not sure on this guy. Haven't seen enough of what he does yet.

Trickster (will the Trickster even have Advanced classes, since the class is exclusive???)
I'd like to see this class stay the Trickster and just grow in one path. I imagine item upgrades and skill upgrades will be available but only directly from MERCS - not in retail stores.

Skald
I'd like to see him have a split similar to the priest where one direction emphasizes positive phrases (taking him from secondary healer to primary healer) and the other emphasizing negative phrases (making him a primary damage dealer). I'd love to see the skald morph from this fun loving, jovial singer to a rage filled, dark robed figure shouting curses and commands at the enemy. The way I see it in my head is really, really epic.

Druid (Spriggan)
One side would summon elements of the forest to help the party, the other would focus on summoning natural equipment, perhaps a secondary tank. I really don't like the notion of a shapeshifter in a miniatures game so something like hardened skin or horns as simply growths on his body like equipment would work better than him shifting into a wolf or moose.
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Chris Smith
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So I discussed this a bit in the Myth forum on ZombiesDash, updated my suggestions a bit as per what others aid on there!

Acolyte
- Necromancer - Path of corruption, still on the good side but using...dubious methods, more damage focal than acolyte
- Priest - Hey guys, healbot over here...

Apprentice
- Enchanter (Weapon/Armour/Item buffing & distractive/debuff magic toward enemies)
- Mage (All the damages, apprentice 2.0 if you will)

Archer
- Hunter (Traps, esca6pes, i.e. survivability), perhaps a pet.
- Marksman/Tech Archer, for lack of a better name (Specialist arrows for an array of effects, like slowing, exploding, pinning, etc)

Brigand
- Thief (Trap disarms, steal gold, reduce threat, poison focused over direct damage)
- Assassin (Get close to enemies, extremely high immediate damage before retreating into the shadows kind of thing!)

Soldier
- Knight (Defensive, protects team, a 'tank' if you will)
- Mercenary (More aggressive, all about killing mercilessly to get loot)

Trickster

- Immobilize & Amplify - PRevent/limit enemy movements & provide allies bonuses to picked targets. Less trap focus, more about smoke bombs/instant use devices
- Destructve - Wild traps which cause devastation among the enemy if used right, high damage but hard to position.
- Neither, I quite like Kelann08's idea of advancing differently, perhaps you get a wide choice of items and such rather than picking a 10 card deck, and just have 1 journeyman route.

Skald
- Bard - Instrumental, gentle, buffs and protective for the team
- Chanter - Voice focal, harsh forceful phrases, provoking aggression in his team and punching holes through enemy lines.

Spriggan
- Ancestor > Ancient - (Mercs told me this is what they are thinking for one path, as the 'good' side! Likely to be a 'support' route
- Darker path, twisting nature to it's will rather than working with it. More tanky, self polymorphic as Kelann08 says, with hardened skin(bark?) and the like.
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Jeremy Steward
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I really like the idea of branching advanced classes. Master classes however, dont make a lot of sense. They'd be better off including "Master Skill" cards that you can add to your deck.

As for class speculation, I agree with the poster above, except soldier will likely evolve to Knight (tank) and Blademaster(dps)
 
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Michelle
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The whole quiver mechanic of the archer's deck wouldn't make much sense with pets. I think they'll come up with a new mechanic and give it to a whole separate class.
 
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Itai Rosenbaum
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breegull wrote:
The whole quiver mechanic of the archer's deck wouldn't make much sense with pets. I think they'll come up with a new mechanic and give it to a whole separate class.


Agreed.

I think the Archer dichotomy could be between speed vs. Damage/Range. Meaning one class could be a Sniper class, where he can fire from far away, deal massive damage with a single shot and perhaps even ignore LoS in some cases.
The other class would focus on dealing damage quickly. Include more skills that don't require arrows in the quiver, lots of rapid-fires and perhaps a little bow-fu.

I'm still thinking about the others myself, but I like what others have suggested.
 
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Anthony Learned
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I would like to see the archer be able to upgrade into a black powder character with, say, an arquebus. Less fire rate maybe, but more damage to more enemies
 
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Anthony Learned
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Although the Spriggan is starting with the Druid deck. Really hope the upgrades divert into their own nature sprite paths.
 
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Anthony Learned
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breegull wrote:
The whole quiver mechanic of the archer's deck wouldn't make much sense with pets. I think they'll come up with a new mechanic and give it to a whole separate class.


Agree, I think the pets mechanic works more naturally with the Druid path. Sort of the Beastmaster meets nature magic.
 
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Anthony Learned
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If the soldier knight path is the 'good' path, will eventually need to become a paladin with pluses versus certain fell creatures.zombiedevilgoo

 
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Donny Behne
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learneda wrote:
If the soldier knight path is the 'good' path, will eventually need to become a paladin with pluses versus certain fell creatures.zombiedevilgoo



This doesn't necessarily assume good path vs. bad path. Just a specialization of skills. If any class went the paladin path it would be the acolyte.
 
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Chad Caughmann
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kelann08 wrote:
If any class went the paladin path it would be the acolyte.


Nope. Brian already stated what all the Acolyte paths would be, as I listed in the OP...and Paladin wasn't one of them.

I also think Paladin is just as much a logical upgrade to a Knight as it would be an Acolyte. Soldier -> Knight -> Holy Knight (Paladin). You could also do Soldier -> Knight -> Dark Knight....or any number of other possibilities, really.
 
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Yaeu Li
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I suspect that the advanced classes would be based upon the pre-existing mechanics in the classes. For example - The soldier would likely have a rage based focus such as a barbarian. Perhaps with taking wounds providing more rage to attack with.
 
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Chris Smith
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learneda wrote:
I would like to see the archer be able to upgrade into a black powder character with, say, an arquebus. Less fire rate maybe, but more damage to more enemies


Nah, doesn't really fit. It would be better to have a completely separate 'rifleman' class to fit that role. You'd have to change most of the deck to bullets for that to make sense ^^
 
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Donny Behne
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thetang22 wrote:
kelann08 wrote:
If any class went the paladin path it would be the acolyte.


Nope. Brian already stated what all the Acolyte paths would be, as I listed in the OP...and Paladin wasn't one of them.

I also think Paladin is just as much a logical upgrade to a Knight as it would be an Acolyte. Soldier -> Knight -> Holy Knight (Paladin). You could also do Soldier -> Knight -> Dark Knight....or any number of other possibilities, really.


I'm aware the acolyte's paths are spoken for. The point I was making was that the Soldier isn't a caster/melee like a paladin. If any of the existing base classes were to sway toward paladin, it would be acolyte. Obviously that's not going to happen.
 
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nodjmet

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Brian has stated the trickster will be able to advance like the other classes. Unlike the others where you may find the upgrades in your hobby store his upgrades will only be through Mercs site since he was an exclusiveto ks.
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Chad Caughmann
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kelann08 wrote:
I'm aware the acolyte's paths are spoken for. The point I was making was that the Soldier isn't a caster/melee like a paladin. If any of the existing base classes were to sway toward paladin, it would be acolyte. Obviously that's not going to happen.


I know what you meant, I just disagree with you, that's all. I think a knight has just as much chance of going into a paladin as an acolyte would.
 
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Jonah Rees
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thetang22 wrote:
kelann08 wrote:
I'm aware the acolyte's paths are spoken for. The point I was making was that the Soldier isn't a caster/melee like a paladin. If any of the existing base classes were to sway toward paladin, it would be acolyte. Obviously that's not going to happen.


I know what you meant, I just disagree with you, that's all. I think a knight has just as much chance of going into a paladin as an acolyte would.


I agree too. I don't think we should assume that a Paladin is a caster/melee character. A lot of Paladin's use prayers and faith rather than direct spell casting.

Personally I think that the Soldier's branching character classes will be damage dealer and tank. What they will be called I have no idea!
 
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Chris Smith
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Humm, a Paladin may be quite doable as a future class in general.

Trainee (Or 'Guard', a person tasked with the defense of others.)
- Protector -- Paladin
- Cloak -- Shadow (Weird names, but think along the lines of a silent secretive protective person, unseen except for when he steps in and saves those he cares about/works for)
 
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Jonah Rees
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Smoothsmith wrote:
Humm, a Paladin may be quite doable as a future class in general.

Trainee (Or 'Guard', a person tasked with the defense of others.)
- Protector -- Paladin
- Cloak -- Shadow (Weird names, but think along the lines of a silent secretive protective person, unseen except for when he steps in and saves those he cares about/works for)


Good shout although the cloak/shadow names seem more suited for the Brigand for me.
 
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Michael Hancock-Parmer
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This is my kind of fun speculation! Find my thoughts/guesses below, with reasoning as it exists.

Base Class
Journeyman Class -> Master Class
Journeyman Class -> Master Class
------
Soldier
Knight -> Paragon
Sellsword -> Bravo/Brava


Here I may be tipping my hand to show I've read Martin's Song of Ice and Fire. In those books, one sees a constant struggle between those who do violence supposedly for good and those who do violence for other practical reasons. The knights are easily manipulated by their masters and sometimes even themselves, leading to horrible crimes against the innocent by hypocritical knights. The sellswords and bravos of Martin's universe are more focused on the arts of war than on any supposed code of chivalry. I would enjoy seeing this struggle brought into this game, though I'm not expecting anything like that.

------
Acolyte
Priest/Priestess -> Saint
Zealot -> Assassin


I would rather see this pseudo-religious class move away from the classic "Holy versus Undeath" dichotomy. I understand the game already intends to introduce the undead, at least in skeleton form. In that case, I'd rather see a divide between altruism and zeal. In other words, an acolyte driven towards helping his companions becomes a priest and eventually a saint. The acolyte that instead prefers to smite the wicked becomes first a zealot and then an assassin. Here I am trying to retake a misused term -- an assassin is not a master thief or even necessarily a master of political murder, but rather a historical member of a fanatically devout (and small in number) branch of Islam.

------
Archer
Ranger -> Wilderman/Wilderwoman
Hunter/Huntress -> Bowmaster/Bowmistress


How many different types of archers are there, really? This is a difficult class to split up. I am rebelling against some recent gaming conventions that like to see the crossbow as an alternate, but the crossbow always struck me as a weapon of last-resort for the unskilled -- no matter what Blizzard wants us to imagine in their Diablo universe. In this case I've drawn the divide between "citified" archers that strike into the darkness from castle walls (hunters and bowmasters) and the wilder bunch of archers that excel in living off the land for extended periods of time. I imagine the ranger branch has greater survivability and speed while the hunter branch focuses more on power and range of attack, preferably attacking from a standing (or prone?) position.

------
Apprentice
Elementalist -> Sorcerer/Sorceress
Mentalist -> Warlock/Witch


I've always found magic use in games and fantasy rather boring and unoriginal. To add something slightly original, I've split the magic users along different lines than one might expect. Apprentices that enjoy manipulating nature choose the elementalist track, while those who prefer to directly dominate their targets become mentalists. These mentalists might actually be making pacts with darker powers, but that seems too cliche for me.

------
Brigand
Thief -> Cutthroat
Thug -> Brawler


I'm taking a page from the Feist universe, which included many characters of a medieval-esque underworld of pickpockets, thugs, thieves, and general ne'er-do-wells. In those situations, there was indeed "honor among thieves," and even a hierarchy of sorts, with a divide between the quick (thieves) and the strong (thugs). If you'd like, you can imagine the Cutthroat's name changing to "Assassin."

------
Skald
Bard -> Scholar
Warsinger -> Wardancer


This is the class I assume will surprise the most people because it is the class closest to its creator's heart, considering there are relatively few people who know more about Beowulf and Germanic warpoetry than he. Still, I wanted to offer a guess -- I see the split being between a more scholastic side and a more blood-infused side of the Skald. The scholarly skald eventually takes up book-learning to supplement battle knowledge, becoming a bard and then a scholar. The warsinger, on the other hand, is a skald whose inspiration has become a way of life, to the point where the wardancer is both instrument of destruction and of art.


------
Druid
Naiad -> Riverson/Riverdaughter
Dryad -> Oakheart


I'm not quite expecting this to be a humanoid class, so I've split things along classical (Greco-Roman) lines. The reader will find both river spirits (Naiads/Nyads) and forest spirits (Dryads). Because the class is non-human, I associate this class progression less with choice or fate and more with increasing age/experience on the part of the druid.
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Chris Smith
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miflhanc wrote:


------
Archer
Ranger -> Wilderman/Wilderwoman
Hunter/Huntress -> Bowmaster/Bowmistress


How many different types of archers are there, really? This is a difficult class to split up. I am rebelling against some recent gaming conventions that like to see the crossbow as an alternate, but the crossbow always struck me as a weapon of last-resort for the unskilled -- no matter what Blizzard wants us to imagine in their Diablo universe. In this case I've drawn the divide between "citified" archers that strike into the darkness from castle walls (hunters and bowmasters) and the wilder bunch of archers that excel in living off the land for extended periods of time. I imagine the ranger branch has greater survivability and speed while the hunter branch focuses more on power and range of attack, preferably attacking from a standing (or prone?) position.

On crossbows: Not necessarily just for the unskilled, I would imagine a strong advantage is the ability to get more power out of them, firing bolts a lot faster than arrows and ensuring penetration on hit. (As you can use a crank, or other alternate stringpull methods)
Not that it matters, the archers journeymen should use arrows anyway because you'd have to replace practically the entire deck to change what resource is being used to bolts!
I tend to imagine a hunter would be more focused on positioning and a little trickery (I know I know 'trickster exists' don't care it's an exclusive, doesn't count imho) and traps, i.e. getting more powerful damaging shots by getting around the side of enemies to shoot. A bowmaster on the other hand would stick behind lines & support teammates more, taking out enemies that look to assault their allies.

Quote:

Apprentice
Elementalist -> Sorcerer/Sorceress
Mentalist -> Warlock/Witch


I've always found magic use in games and fantasy rather boring and unoriginal. To add something slightly original, I've split the magic users along different lines than one might expect. Apprentices that enjoy manipulating nature choose the elementalist track, while those who prefer to directly dominate their targets become mentalists. These mentalists might actually be making pacts with darker powers, but that seems too cliche for me.

Elementalist as in fire, water, air, earth? I like that idea, when you say 'nature' my head just throws 'but that's druid' back in my face. Mastery of the elements is quite a common magic user theme and one I absolutely love. Your line of thought on the mentalist is a good one, as it makes me think of similarities between priests/mages in some of my favourite books. What I'm saying there is that there's a thin line between what is magic, and what is good/evil(angel/demonic) powers, with the reality of the situation in the eye of the beholder (A magician might argue priests are just using magic, a priest might argue magicians are abusers of spiritual powers)....I may have gotten sidetracked but I hope I made a good point in there somewhere...

Quote:

Skald
Bard -> Scholar
Warsinger -> Wardancer


This is the class I assume will surprise the most people because it is the class closest to its creator's heart, considering there are relatively few people who know more about Beowulf and Germanic warpoetry than he. Still, I wanted to offer a guess -- I see the split being between a more scholastic side and a more blood-infused side of the Skald. The scholarly skald eventually takes up book-learning to supplement battle knowledge, becoming a bard and then a scholar. The warsinger, on the other hand, is a skald whose inspiration has become a way of life, to the point where the wardancer is both instrument of destruction and of art.

Your descriptions of the classes are very much what I was thinking in my suggestions earlier on the page ^^, I'm just not very good at descriptions as opposed to describing the mechanics! Very much approve, naturally

Quote:

Druid
Naiad -> Riverson/Riverdaughter
Dryad -> Oakheart


I'm not quite expecting this to be a humanoid class, so I've split things along classical (Greco-Roman) lines. The reader will find both river spirits (Naiads/Nyads) and forest spirits (Dryads). Because the class is non-human, I associate this class progression less with choice or fate and more with increasing age/experience on the part of the druid.

I don't tend to think any of the classes are aimed at being humanoid or otherwise. In fact this thinking makes me dislike what you're saying about being spirits somewhat. General paths they can follow are far more interesting as you can imagine a creature or being of any type taking up a role. Cool paths would be a gentler, growth & healing side (taking advantage of nature as is), and a more "augmentation" based side using(twisting?) nature to alter and improve themselves, a light form of mutation, if you will.
 
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