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Since we know half the set now, I figured I might as well start doing initial ratings.



This is efficient at any point when you would be willing to pay $2 per extra virus counter. (At which point, this is similar to a sure gamble). What Virus counters are worth $2?

Medium counters definitely are. Often you will make an entire run just to get medium counters, so that your next run hits for more. Surge used in this way is similar to Maker’s Eye, with the benefit that it also leaves the extra counters on Medium, forcing immediate clearing.
Nerve Agent Counters are too. Imagine: Play Nerve Agent with Grimoire. Surge. Run HQ. Access FOUR. You just got the agendas, so now you can ignore the hand. But they have to clear viruses too or else you can access the whole hand at will in the future.
Sometimes, Parasite will be worth it, to kill a big ice before they expect/before they wipe virus counters. But this isn’t quite as strong as the bonus accesses.

Note that its harder to use Surge on things like Medium, without a Grimoire. Once they clear it, youll need to go: Run, Surge, Run. But its still fine.
I think there is definitely a place for Surge in some Anarch decks, but what do we cut? It probably has less of a place outside Anarch, because its best with a Grimoire as well.

(Edit: I am not saying this costs you $2 per virus counter. Clearly its free. I'm saying that putting it in your deck was worth it, if when you get it, you can generally find uses for it that you would value at $2 per counter. Since that means it was as good as a Sure Gamble, which is a good card).





This is a strong card, and for 0 MU, its basically an always-2-counter Nerve Agent!
While its probably not as strong as R&D interface will be, when that card is printed (maybe this set, maybe not), its still great. A shaper can play this and double the effectiveness of HQ runs, if they have gotten to a position where the corp is too afraid to install their agendas, since the runner can get through anything.
Gabe can make his HQ hits even more deadly. I don’t know that Anarch would play this over Nerve Agent. But a non-virus focused Anarch might.

A very strong card, will see play. The fact that it costs 0 MU is a big deal.






This is an important card, and it effects the metagame. By providing an efficient but limited economy source to any runner, this can give any runner a better lategame.
However, it makes the runner vulnerable to being tagged, if they weren’t already. Not only that, but a Kati Jones with $12 on it means that if the runner becomes tagged at end of turn and cant clear it, that they lose both the Kati AND the money sitting there! Or if they get hit with a Breaking News/Posted Bounty on the corp turn, he can trash her.
If you play Kati Jones, you are forced to care about tags, similar to if you play things like Workshop, Wyldside, etc.
This makes tags better. It makes NBN better (Breaking News!) It makes tags in decks that otherwise cant punish them well better (HB for example), since its one more important resource that runners might be playing.
This card might potentially be the card to provide Criminal a lategame, since it has good long term income. However, if you use it, you suddenly have to care about tags in criminal, whereas without it you could probably play a Plascrete and ignore them.






A Niche card, you basically want this for only two things:
1) You drew too many agendas early / are against criminal, and want them back in your deck.
2) You drew Snare/Fetal AI against a runner that medium digs you, and you want them back in the deck for the potential kill.
I think this will end up being disappointing for people that play it, on average. Sometimes it will be good, sure. But on the whole, its still a tempo loss, is just negates a bad draw.
Note: If youre doing something like sitting there mining every turn, and you have too many cards, this is not an answer to that “problem”. In that case you either take a turn to install 3, or you discard. Its fine to discard in that situation, really.






The best thing about this card is that it enables silly combo-kills using ice like Bullfrog to teleport them to a kill server, or Cell Portal to loop them through a series of ice until they die. These kills will look awesome when they happen. But how often will they actually work? I think not that often. Unless the runner just runs in unprepared against Jinteki a lot (which is dumb!)

I am sure that lots of people are going to go out and build their silly, combo kill Whirlpool decks now. And they’ll manage to pull off their ridiculous kill/infinite loop scenario, and it will be super fun.
In terms of being tournament worthy however, its pretty borderline.





In terms of Jinteki cards that help you kill the runner, THIS card is fantastic however.
First of all, its an UPGRADE TRAP! You play it, and if they run it, great! Take 1. If they don’t, you stick something else on top of it. Which could even be a Snare/Edge of World/Junebug/Fetal! It adds one more damage into your trap combo, bringing them that much closer to death or being Neural-EMPable.
Secondly, its economical! You play it, pay $2 when they hit it, and they take damage AND they need to pay $4. If they don’t pay the 4, they take damage every time they hit it in the future, until they pay the $4 to kill it. The fact that you are always getting a net gain over the runner when they hit this makes it a fantastic card.
This is going to be a seriously frustrating card for the runner to deal with. I’ll definitely consider splashing it outside of Jinteki as well. Even if you aren’t trying to kill them, the annoyance of the damage disruption and the economic gain is excellent.
If you play a Hokusai Grid into an empty fort, and they run through the ice to get to it, then you just gained EVEN MORE value from it!






Honestly, this is a bad card. It compares unfavorably to similar ice that tag the runner. For example, Matrix Analyzer is higher strength and has a bonus advance. Hunter is higher strength and higher trace value.
So to want to play Data Hound, first you need to be in a situation where milling 1 card from them is much worse than a tag.
Data Hound really only does much if it denies them something important, a significantly above average card for their current situation. If you beat them by only 1 in the trace, your milled card will be just the top card, and on average will be an average card in their deck. This will only effect them if they eventually run out of cards because youre doing tons of damage. If you beat them by at least 2 you get some selection, and your chance of effectively hitting something important goes up.
But seriously now, with the weak trace, and an effect that has to get lucky to be better than a tag, how much does this ice really do?
If you would play this, I think youre generally better off with Matrix Analyzer or Hunter. (And you can put a Chum in front of those more effectively as well).






Another fantastic UPGRADE TRAP! Finally some upgrade traps.
Bernice initiates a trace 5 to tag them, and if successful, sticks around unless they also pay $3!
If you are NBN and make it a free trace 7, then they have suffer in one of two ways:
A) They pay $7-Link to beat the trace.
B) They get a tag and pay $3 to trash her.
Both effects are strong value for a FREE card. Youre probably costing a zero or 1 link runner $6.
In addition, if you play Bernice into a server and she causes the runner to run it, you add on their cost to break all that ice to her value. That can be a massive economic gain over the runner. If they infiltrate her, then cool? You saw my trap but I don’t even have to trash it to put down another asset/agenda! Youre still getting nailed with the trace later.
Bernice Mai is a fantastic card in a deck that will install things face down in a server, threatening that they are 3/2 agendas, and say go.

When the worst case is that you get an economic gain over the runner, and the best case is that you get a HUGE economic gain over the runner because they broke your ice as well, that’s amazing.
Additionally, if you fail to draw enough ice early on, you can put her on a Central Server as a faux-ice. If they run it turn 1, they probably get a tag and lose $3, slowing them down a ton. She acts kindof like a Hunter guarding that server.

Honestly, I'm even considering her in things like HB fast advance. Since any face down unadvanced card could be a 3/2 that they want to run, you play her in a remote and they might run it, wasting lots of money. But if they dont run her its not bad, they still have to deal with her later.






Simone is a decent economy card, that works in a deck trying to advance ice. You can also advance agendas with her, in that fort, which helps her provide decent economy.
If killed quickly, she should at least be breakeven, costing the corp $2 (since you used her twice the first turn advancing ice, right?) And costing the runner $3. Ideally, you can get value out of her and then tax the runner a bunch for the run in to kill her, gaining value. Alternately, if they let you keep her, you should be prepared to use her a TON, setting up a huge commercialization ice, and rushing agendas through that server for free.
I think she is a decent economy card in Weyland. I probably wouldn’t put her in a non-weyland deck, though maybe some other Commercialization deck could use her effectively.





Xanadu:
Cost 3.
Unique Resource.

??? Influence.
The rez cost of all ice is increased by 1. (Almost certainly this is the effect).



Strong in Criminal Resource denial/derez, and in Anarch Ice destruction. Better the earlier you draw it, of course.
I could definitely see splashing this into criminal, and playing it in some Anarch decks. It really only shines in a resource denial deck though. In a standard strategy is going to take a lot of ice-rezzing before this becomes efficient. Also, if youre using it in criminal, and you take a tag, they can kill it, so thats a drawback for some decks that could otherwise ignore tags.


Networking:
Cost 0 Criminal Event
1 Influence

Remove a tag. You may pay $1 to add Networking to your grip instead of your heap.


So basically this card repeatedly saves you $1 when removing tags. But to do that, its eating up a slot in your hand.

Its pretty niche. I have to want to remove lots of tags to make it decent. Only certain corps will make that useful.
Also, I have to care about the tags enough to need to remove them, and I'm either spending influence or I'm criminal. Criminals already have a better way to make tags cheaper to remove in crash space, and they often can put out a Plascrete and then ignore the tags altogether.

This is pretty much a meta card for people who play against lots of tag corps, and who uses resources so they care about being tagged.


Foxfire:
Cost 0 Neutral Corp Operation.

Trace ? - If successful, trash 1 virtual ?????? link. ??

We dont fully know this card yet, so its hard to tell how good it is without the details. Does it only trash virtual link cards? Is it virtual OR link cards? If it could trash The Toolbox that might be great. If the trace value is big this might be strong. We will see.
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I don'r follow you math with surge. I don't understand why you consider it so expensive.
 
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bazyn wrote:
I don'r follow you math with surge. I don't understand why you consider it so expensive.


Its not expensive.
If those virus counters are worth $2 each to you, then it was as effective as a Sure Gamble (a good card).
So this card is good if you will often get at least $2 of value per counter.
 
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I think HQ interface is not as strong as first glance.

The four cost is not trivial. I see this more as a splash into Shaper than I do a as a core card for Criminal.

Gabe likes his HQ access for the money not for the cards; adding the benefit of additional cards is okay - but it takes away from his early aggression. So there's a choice that Gabe players will have to make;

Increased effectiveness through access of multiple cards at the expense of his aggression. I just don't see Gabe getting more benefit from the extra access when compared to the benefit of his speed.

In Shaper on the other hand where it's only 3 to install I think this weakens other servers since Corps players will have to react and defend HQ a bit more. That now gives mid / late game Shapers a threat across all servers.

Makers Eye - R&D
HQ Interface - HQ
Remotes - High Economy
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notyetsuperman wrote:
I think HQ interface is not as strong as first glance.

The four cost is not trivial.


Compare with Nerve Agent, which costs 3 and an MU and is reliant on virus counters. I think HQI is a pretty decent deal for anyone, especially if you're planning on accessing cards from HQ anyway (which happens as Gabe, even as you're getting that sweet lucre.

This forces agendas to evacuate the hand sooner than the Corp would want. Also, I irrationally hate the roulette wheel of single card HQ accesses, so this card basically is just happiness for me.
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Love your ratings, this looks like it's going to be one of the strongest packs yet.
 
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Oh, and what are your thoughts on Networking (which looks like ye olde Open Ended Mileage Program), Xanadu (which looks like a resource with the effect that ICE rez costs += 1)?

And who knows what Foxfire does, it looks weird and possibly ungrammatical.
 
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bullseyetm wrote:
Love your ratings, this looks like it's going to be one of the strongest packs yet.


Yeah, I'm thinking 2nd strongest, since Cyber Exodus was rediculously good. The upgrade traps, the HQ interface and Kati Jones are important cards. If this pack has R&D interface too, that card is SUPER good. Like seriously crazy. Its like a 0 MU medium. It doesnt build up as hard, but it always works on first hit. Its better for someone that hits R&D a moderate amount, not sets up a way to hit it 4 times in a turn.


The best thing about HQ interface is that its HARDWARE. And they stack. Its definitely good. Its not the greatest thing ever, because HQ hitting is still limited by them needing the have agendas there to work.
 
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Azeltir wrote:
Oh, and what are your thoughts on Networking (which looks like ye olde Open Ended Mileage Program), Xanadu (which looks like a resource with the effect that ICE rez costs += 1)?

And who knows what Foxfire does, it looks weird and possibly ungrammatical.


Are those in this set? Or going to be in Future Proof? I thought they were coming later on. Xanadu is the most exciting of those, I think. Probably amazing in Criminal ice denial/derez, and Anarch ice destruction.
 
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Alexfrog wrote:
Are those in this set?


Yes.
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Azeltir wrote:
Alexfrog wrote:
Are those in this set?


Yes.


Thanks, will edit.

I saw someone's list of the 9 spoiled cards somewhere, but they had missed some apparently.

Wow we know most of this set already.
 
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Sure Gamble makes for a bit of a weird benchmark. I mean, obviously if Surge is worth as much as gaining $4, then it's a good card, but that's setting the bar pretty high. Since the reason for Sure Gamble's high payoff is that you need $5 to be able to play it, then Easy Mark (or Diesel) seems like the more obvious comparison.

As for Data Hound, I'm certainly not saying it's good, and I agree that if it's just milling one card whenever the runner encounters it (against Kate, let's say, or Noise with one Dyson), that's pretty underwhelming. (Maybe it'd help a Wyldside deck burn out slightly faster, but such a deck will probably have Deja Vu to keep it safe from mill shenanigans.) But one thing you seem to be leaving out in your assessment is that, assuming you do pass the trace by more than 1, it's not just "mill their best card out of the top x"...you also know what their next x-1 draws will be, and you get to rearrange them.
I mean, I won't be including it anytime soon, but for a 1-cost ice, that's not bad.
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You install HQ Interface if the criminal gets into a late game (Late game now with Kati in Criminal's is more viable). You want the HQ Interface in the late game because running over and over again get's expensive so you want to maximize the punch. I was already considering putting Nerve Agent in my deck for this. HQ Interface sounds better to me.

(Edit: by better I mean no mem cost. No influence cost. No expensive repeated running. One flat cost).

I agree with the previous poster. If I put HQ Interface + Dyson Chips + Carapace + Toolbox in my Kate deck then Inside Man is starting to make sense now.
 
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kobold47 wrote:
Sure Gamble makes for a bit of a weird benchmark. I mean, obviously if Surge is worth as much as gaining $4, then it's a good card, but that's setting the bar pretty high. Since the reason for Sure Gamble's high payoff is that you need $5 to be able to play it, then Easy Mark (or Diesel) seems like the more obvious comparison.


I think if the bar is set at "situational Sure Gamble", and something meets that, then its pretty good. If you set the bar at "situational Easy Mark", thats not a very high bar. The effect of easy mark is merely okay. if something is only as good as easy mark in the right situation, thats not that good, even if that situation comes up fairly often.

Quote:

As for Data Hound, I'm certainly not saying it's good, and I agree that if it's just milling one card whenever the runner encounters it (against Kate, let's say, or Noise with one Dyson), that's pretty underwhelming. (Maybe it'd help a Wyldside deck burn out slightly faster, but such a deck will probably have Deja Vu to keep it safe from mill shenanigans.) But one thing you seem to be leaving out in your assessment is that, assuming you do pass the trace by more than 1, it's not just "mill their best card out of the top x"...you also know what their next x-1 draws will be, and you get to rearrange them.
I mean, I won't be including it anytime soon, but for a 1-cost ice, that's not bad.


Yeah I accounted for that. If youve got a trace 2, and youve got to beat them by at least 2 on the trace to make it good, then man is that a weak card. It had better be FRICKING AWESOME when you beat them by 2. And its only randomly awesome.

Hunter is more strength, more trace, and tags them. A tag is generally pretty decent. Data Hound needs a couple things to work out to be as good as Hunter, as card that is itself already niche. Yeah.




As a side note, any wierd, unique effect is going to get plenty of people going "OMG, this thing is SOOOO COOOL". Even if its actually a really terrible card. Lots of people just cant evaluate cards. Or they can only evaluate them if they can compare them to something similar, that they already know from experience is good or bad.

Data Hound is different, so it tricks people into being excited about it. But its actually weak. Also, because it works really well some percentage of the time, when it nails their Opus or something and they spend forever just hunting for an Opus, some people are just going to go on thinking its a great card forever, because of that experience. But we have to weight over all cases of how it will work. The expectation value of it, overall, is pretty weak.
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I'm going to do my own set review on stimhack.com next week but I certainly agree with most everything that you said. Seeing more than half the set so far, I think Hokusai Grid is the best card in the set. The shell game deck was already annoying to play against and borderline playable and now it has a legitimate threat that makes the Runner consider his options even more carefully that before.

I'm not as sold on Bernice Mai as you are but the card certainly seems fine. I feel like NBN already has a ton of good cards that trace and tag the Runner but nothing super exciting to do with those tags. Psychographics and Closed Accounts are both solid cards on their own but NBN just lacks a way to finish off the runner while tagged. Scorched Earth just costs too much influence right now to fit into NBN. Once NBN gets better ice, and doesn't have to use most of its infuence on that, then there might be room for Scorches and cards like Bernice go up in value. I'm sorry that this is such a rant. I love NBN as a faction, I just wish they had more choices than what they do. Good trace and tag cards are not really what they need.

I'm also not a huge fan of Simone Diego but can see it fitting into the right deck. It's certainly a powerful card since it can advance agendas and that's something that really shouldn't be overlooked.

Also agree about HQ Interface. To me, that's the second best card I've seen from the set so far.
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Alexfrog wrote:
kobold47 wrote:
Sure Gamble makes for a bit of a weird benchmark. I mean, obviously if Surge is worth as much as gaining $4, then it's a good card, but that's setting the bar pretty high. Since the reason for Sure Gamble's high payoff is that you need $5 to be able to play it, then Easy Mark (or Diesel) seems like the more obvious comparison.


I think if the bar is set at "situational Sure Gamble", and something meets that, then its pretty good. If you set the bar at "situational Easy Mark", thats not a very high bar. The effect of easy mark is merely okay. if something is only as good as easy mark in the right situation, thats not that good, even if that situation comes up fairly often.


For me, "is it (situationally) at least as good as Sure Gamble" is a less useful standard than "is it worse than Easy Mark." Ultimately, it's a matter of preference, but I figure that the ESDs of the world will speak for themselves, whereas it's the cards like Networking for which I'm going to want to sit down and compare it to other, average cards before I can tell whether I care about it.

As for Data Hound, I agree, leaving the trace at 2 isn't worth much either, and I sure as hell wouldn't spend credits to boost it, unless they're NBN's recurring credits and I don't have something else I'd rather spend them on (in which case I'm probably only using this ID because Future Proof hasn't come out yet). But I'm still not convinced that it's intrinsically very weak; like a lot of cards in this cycle, its biggest problem is that it's a niche card that's still waiting for its niche.
 
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Gamer_Arthur wrote:
I'm going to do my own set review on stimhack.com next week but I certainly agree with most everything that you said. Seeing more than half the set so far, I think Hokusai Grid is the best card in the set. The shell game deck was already annoying to play against and borderline playable and now it has a legitimate threat that makes the Runner consider his options even more carefully that before.

I'm not as sold on Bernice Mai as you are but the card certainly seems fine. I feel like NBN already has a ton of good cards that trace and tag the Runner but nothing super exciting to do with those tags. Psychographics and Closed Accounts are both solid cards on their own but NBN just lacks a way to finish off the runner while tagged. Scorched Earth just costs too much influence right now to fit into NBN. Once NBN gets better ice, and doesn't have to use most of its infuence on that, then there might be room for Scorches and cards like Bernice go up in value. I'm sorry that this is such a rant. I love NBN as a faction, I just wish they had more choices than what they do. Good trace and tag cards are not really what they need.

I'm also not a huge fan of Simone Diego but can see it fitting into the right deck. It's certainly a powerful card since it can advance agendas and that's something that really shouldn't be overlooked.

Also agree about HQ Interface. To me, that's the second best card I've seen from the set so far.



Yeah Hokusai Grid is fantastic. Bernice Mai is similar to it, imo. The 0 cost is awesome. Its usable with a SanSan.


HOKUSAI vs BERNICE:
Net economic gain of a Hokusai grid use is PROBABLY $2 swing, and a damage. Its more vulnerable to Imp, since then you lose $2, do a damage and they lose an imp counter. For Bernice, if they have Imp, you pay nothing and they eat a tag and imp it. Or they beat a big trace.

The worst case for Bernice is that they have a big link, and its only a couple credits net loss for them for NBN or almost nothing for others.

Both cards can equally induce a run, which increases their value.
Hokusai has more upside, as it might enable a kill. Bernice might not be useful in a deck that doesnt punish tags agaisnt a resourceless runner, so in that deck its worst case is that it doesnt do anything. Of course, if they dont know your deck, when you pull Bernice Mai out in your HB deck, they might go: "What is going on? Better clear this tag".

Both cards hammer the runner if they run through your fort for it, and barely get through with low credits.

 
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Alexfrog wrote:
As a side note, any wierd, unique effect is going to get plenty of people going "OMG, this thing is SOOOO COOOL". Even if its actually a really terrible card. Lots of people just cant evaluate cards. Or they can only evaluate them if they can compare them to something similar, that they already know from experience is good or bad.

Data Hound is different, so it tricks people into being excited about it. But its actually weak. Also, because it works really well some percentage of the time, when it nails their Opus or something and they spend forever just hunting for an Opus, some people are just going to go on thinking its a great card forever, because of that experience. But we have to weight over all cases of how it will work. The expectation value of it, overall, is pretty weak.


I remember when we read Bullfrog, and most people were similarly unexcited about, until we found Whirlpool, and suddenly Bullfrog made much more sense. I think that if we wait next month (or a little after, considering how the data pack release schedule seems to be getting pushed back), we may see that the new NBN will make this card MUCH more viable.

It's all in waiting till the end of the data cycle. Lets see what Future Proof has to say about Data Hound, then judge its overall usefulness.
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Azeltir wrote:
notyetsuperman wrote:
I think HQ interface is not as strong as first glance.

The four cost is not trivial.


Compare with Nerve Agent, which costs 3 and an MU and is reliant on virus counters. I think HQI is a pretty decent deal for anyone, especially if you're planning on accessing cards from HQ anyway (which happens as Gabe, even as you're getting that sweet lucre.

This forces agendas to evacuate the hand sooner than the Corp would want. Also, I irrationally hate the roulette wheel of single card HQ accesses, so this card basically is just happiness for me.


Won't deny its comparison to Nerve Agent - but Gabe doesn't play Nerve Agent anyway. Precisely why I don't think Gabe players will be using HQI.

HQI is another way to threaten HQ for factions that don't already do it. It costs one less influence for Shapers and Kate gives the 1c discount.

I doubt it will gain long term use in Gabe decks - people will play it at the start but I think most will find they get more use out of Emergency Shutdown and Comprimised Employee; I suppose you could drop some OOF cards and make for HQI. ... what would you drop from your Criminal deck to make room for this card?

And this is why I think the card should be rated a
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Alexfrog wrote:
Gamer_Arthur wrote:
I'm going to do my own set review on stimhack.com next week but I certainly agree with most everything that you said. Seeing more than half the set so far, I think Hokusai Grid is the best card in the set. The shell game deck was already annoying to play against and borderline playable and now it has a legitimate threat that makes the Runner consider his options even more carefully that before.

I'm not as sold on Bernice Mai as you are but the card certainly seems fine. I feel like NBN already has a ton of good cards that trace and tag the Runner but nothing super exciting to do with those tags. Psychographics and Closed Accounts are both solid cards on their own but NBN just lacks a way to finish off the runner while tagged. Scorched Earth just costs too much influence right now to fit into NBN. Once NBN gets better ice, and doesn't have to use most of its infuence on that, then there might be room for Scorches and cards like Bernice go up in value. I'm sorry that this is such a rant. I love NBN as a faction, I just wish they had more choices than what they do. Good trace and tag cards are not really what they need.

I'm also not a huge fan of Simone Diego but can see it fitting into the right deck. It's certainly a powerful card since it can advance agendas and that's something that really shouldn't be overlooked.

Also agree about HQ Interface. To me, that's the second best card I've seen from the set so far.



Yeah Hokusai Grid is fantastic. Bernice Mai is similar to it, imo. The 0 cost is awesome. Its usable with a SanSan.


HOKUSAI vs BERNICE:
Net economic gain of a Hokusai grid use is PROBABLY $2 swing, and a damage. Its more vulnerable to Imp, since then you lose $2, do a damage and they lose an imp counter. For Bernice, if they have Imp, you pay nothing and they eat a tag and imp it. Or they beat a big trace.

The worst case for Bernice is that they have a big link, and its only a couple credits net loss for them for NBN or almost nothing for others.

Both cards can equally induce a run, which increases their value.
Hokusai has more upside, as it might enable a kill. Bernice might not be useful in a deck that doesnt punish tags agaisnt a resourceless runner, so in that deck its worst case is that it doesnt do anything. Of course, if they dont know your deck, when you pull Bernice Mai out in your HB deck, they might go: "What is going on? Better clear this tag".

Both cards hammer the runner if they run through your fort for it, and barely get through with low credits.



I understand what you're saying about the two cards, and I'm on board with it. Imp houses Upgrades/Assets anyway you slice it so I don't know if that's the best example but can see the merits to it. I 100% agree that Bernice is a good card. It's certainly powerful and a rez of 0 for a Trace of 5 (+1/2 free) is nuts for that cost. All I'm saying is that it's hard to get any kind of benefit from tagging the Runner outside of a big 'Graphics for 2-3. Tags are good against resource based decks but as long as Gabe keeps on keeping on, and you don't have the threat of Scorched Earth, it isn't going to matter.

Even still, they could take the tag from Bernice, pay to trash her, and then just remove the tag. I know that's the absolute worst case scenario for the Corp but it's not that unreasonable. The newer high-link Kate decks with Rabbit Holes, Helpful AI, and Dyson Mem Chips could even potentially beat the Trace which is an absolute nightmare scenario for you.

I know that you aren't directly comparing Hokusai to Bernice but Hokusai ALWAYS does a damage if they run it and makes them spend credits to trash it. At the absolute worst, it's a Neural EMP and that's a card that I already feel is underrated in the current format. People are just getting so sloppy with their runs against non-Weyland decks.
 
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Alex Rockwell
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Fiendofthenorth wrote:


I remember when we read Bullfrog, and most people were similarly unexcited about, until we found Whirlpool, and suddenly Bullfrog made much more sense. I think that if we wait next month (or a little after, considering how the data pack release schedule seems to be getting pushed back), we may see that the new NBN will make this card MUCH more viable.

It's all in waiting till the end of the data cycle. Lets see what Future Proof has to say about Data Hound, then judge its overall usefulness.



Actually when bullfrog was spoiled, tons of people went ZOMG ITS TEH GREATEST. IT WILL SAVE JINTEKI. And I said "No, this sucks. And it will suck until we get an effect that says 'The runner cannot jack out', after which ts okay, but still is only barely compensating you in terms of cost discount. Oh yeah, and they loved Hourglass too.

Now Data Hound. What magical card makes this effect suddenly way more awesome? Unless we get an effect saying "when a card is trashed from the runner's deck, do something awesome", then this card is bad.


People just go insane whenever some ice comes out that does something different than things other ice do. Even if that thing is actually weak.
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Steven Tu
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I never liked Bullfrog from the beginning And as for Whirlpool - it opens up possibilities that weren't there before in a trap faction that's mostly about "maybe maybe not". So that's good.

I think all of these upgrades will be effing nutters, and will make Encryption Protocol ALL the more better. Mmmmm
 
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Alex Rockwell
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Tuism wrote:

I think all of these upgrades will be effing nutters, and will make Encryption Protocol ALL the more better. Mmmmm



Yeah they are nuts! So strong.

They might make encryption better, though Imp counters encryption. Also, Bernice Mai self-trashes if they beat the trace. So that only benefits in some scenarios.
 
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Lou Lessing
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Do you have other sources for speculation on Networking? Or is a lot of that filled in?
 
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Simon Webster
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brisingre wrote:
Do you have other sources for speculation on Networking? Or is a lot of that filled in?


http://www.netrunneronline.com/cards/open-ended-mileage-prog...
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