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Subject: That,s just not cricket old boy!! rss

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Jason Rush
United Kingdom
Port Talbot
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So I've only recently jumped onto the eclipse band wagon , and how foolish I,ve been ,for waiting so long.

Shall I shan't I , mmm looks a bit complicated , not sure about the components.
Nonsense...my brain at the end of a game is completely frazzle free and the components are great.

So a gaming buddy of mine brought along to a game night and we played and from that 3rd turn in , I,ve been hooked ever since.

Not only is it not complicated but everything flows perfectly together and in my opinion has got everything a game should have to make a rich and rewarding experience ......until.

Boom I'm hit with a knock back on my last play and I just had to ask if anyone else had been on the receiving end of what we Brits would say" that's just not cricket old bean"

So we get to the last round and the player to my left declares "oh well , there's no way to win now so I'm gonna use all my discs this turn just to build a ridiculous armada and screw over anyone that is near to me , I cannot possibly pay for my actions but I fancy a few large battles at the end of the game .

So then the guy to his left says well if he's gonna do it so am I , cause I can't win either .

Now knowing that if they use all the influence discs to take 7-10 actions , there's now way to pay 25 money and there out of the game but that doesn't happen until the upkeep phase , so the battles take place beforehand wiping out the 2nd and players chance of a possible win.

Now I know that this is a game of traitors and trying to knockout your opponents but that play just seems a little un sports man likeshake

Now this may be a rare occurrence because your gaming buddy's certainly would not have done this to you , but maybe you were at a conference or playing with some guys you didn't know.

So I guess what I'm really asking is your views on the situation , was it house ruled , I was thinking that in the last round maybe house rule that upkeep came before combat?
What do you think , am I looking into it to much and should take it on the chin if players want to do this.
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Bryan Thunkd
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Florence
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Just implement a house rule... those jerks aren't allowed to play with you anymore.
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Mathue Faulkner
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Austin
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Wait.

So the player to your left declared that he was going to wage war....and then the guy to his right declared the same thing? Isn't that you?

Besides, isn't that what a lot of the players are doing in the last round anyway? They may not overextend their actions, but players are often able to afford spending most of the discs at that point anyway. I would just similarly build up a force, and hope to attack them first...effectively pinning their ships. Or build some Starbases bases and prepare for the attack. Or sneak in and clean up all the territory that they're going to be vacating. It seems like it would be similar to a normal last round, only they may have a couple actions more than they normally would...which is likely spent in moving their massive armada.
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Jim Richardson

Pennsylvania
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Hopeless situations happen often with newbies, less often as experience is gained. Hopefully your group will grow out of it.
 
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Sam Cook
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In the games of Eclipse I have played, most of the players are able to safely take close to all their actions on the last round anyway, and those that cannot afford to wouldn't have the materials/ships/technology/science to make those extra actions too threatening.

Basically, what I'm saying is, all those extra actions on just one round would normally not be that disruptive to the other players since you need other resources to back up those actions.

I am going to assume in your game that there wasn't a lot of combat in early rounds so everyone had amassed a large fleet - which would be common in a group's first few games of Eclipse.
 
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G B
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Crown Point
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NO! I'M SPARTACUS!
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Well, that is the sort of thing that friends don't do in the big picture so I will argue that this will be very rare. I wouldn't let it sour your experience as this game is top notch.

That said, playing king maker in a less dramatic fashion can, and will, happen in large games. And 3p games too.
 
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Damian White
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Wowsers, that's ... er, disappointing play, for lack of a better euphemism.

I guess I'm fortunate to regularly play with others that don't do that sort of thing. We have an informal houserule that to continue to take actions in the way described, a player must be able to afford to do so -- taking into account bankruptcy -- to actually do so. That said, this has never actually happened ... there have been a few times when a player has pushed themselves into bankruptcy (by one or two actions at most) to over-extend themselves for a risky move, but I've never seen anyone pull the above just for some endgame biffo. As you say, it's definitely not cricket.

On a related note, I'm surprised that they have the actions to make it worth doing so. In most games I've played -- especially so with experienced players -- by the endgame all player's economies are rather advanced, and it's typical for most/all player to only have 0-2 influence discs left on their economies anyway. So if someone were thinking of pulling this kind of move, there's not really that much scope for them to do so ... an extra action or two does not an armada make. As opposed to, say, taking an extra 5-6 actions into the red to fuel a there's-no-way-in-hell-I-can-balance-this-in-the-upkeep-phase suicide run.

If there's anything in the RAW that would prevent this rotter play, I'd be very keen to take note of it on the off chance I see it in a game one day.

But failing that old boy, one hopes that with a few more plays the people you play with up their game a tad, so they're in the running more and don't have to resort to this underhanded skullduggery.
 
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Jason Rush
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Lol , I just read that back and realised that would be me , so I've edited , thanks for pointing that out.

It's great to see that I have some support.

As the old saying goes though , all's fair in love and war and yes these guys where newbies to the game.

This definitely hasn't put me off the game , I'll put it down to a one off incident that hopefully won't happen to often.

Thanks for the feedback , definitely made me feel a little better that I wasnt't alone in my thinking , do you think that that end house rule of up keeping before combat phase in the last round only would effect the game in any way or is it just best to play as normal?
 
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Lutz
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Well, if they went so big as to bankrupt themselves and they are out of the game, you would win anyway.

BOb
 
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James
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Its amazing how getting an old trophy from the thrift shop changes every thing. Tell the group after every X many games this trophy is given out and you are the king of eclipse or something like that but with more adjectives. this makes 2ond & 3rd more valueable, of coarse last place still might have a melt down. of coarse everyone knows last place always buys the beer...there problem solved! you know your Canadian when you can solve a problem with beer, bacon or hockey, to use all 3 it must be really bad!

cheers
 
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neko flying
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Jace_Ace wrote:

So I guess what I'm really asking is your views on the situation , was it house ruled , I was thinking that in the last round maybe house rule that upkeep came before combat?
What do you think , am I looking into it to much and should take it on the chin if players want to do this.


Kingmaking is by no means exclusive to Eclipse. Practically all games for more than two players have this. If you really have a problem with it, you should try a collaborative game, or one with game-assigned partnerships, grouping all players in two teams from the beginning.
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neko flying
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Cossackbad wrote:
Its amazing how getting an old trophy from the thrift shop changes every thing.


Or money. Even something very nominal, like 0.01€ per point to be handed out to whomever has scored more points than you can be quite a deterrent.
 
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J Holmes
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As others have mentioned, because the game ends at the end of round 9, it means that there will often be battles for the sake of having battles.
robot
Given you get to look at battle tokens and ships are worthless, you might as well fight it out if you can.

Your best bet would be to build interceptors or starbases to pin them and prevent you losing terrority.

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Daniel Hammond
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j_holmes wrote:
As others have mentioned, because the game ends at the end of round 9, it means that there will often be battles for the sake of having battles.
:robot:
Given you get to look at battle tokens and ships are worthless, you might as well fight it out if you can.

Your best bet would be to build interceptors or starbases to pin them and prevent you losing terrority.


Edit: quoted because I agree with the statement above.

To the original author's point: As you get more experience stuff like this shouldn't impact you. I keep reserves and limit access to my systems. It takes many more actions to build and move than to just build. In addition I usually have and can afford to use all my actions on the last turn (so no one has 7-10 EXTRA actions to use). Actions are one of the game's most valuable resources. As you get more experience you will waste less of them and be better at dealing with erratic actions of other players. You can still get screwed over by bad play, but it does happen less often the better you get at the game.
 
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