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Super Dungeon Explore: Von Drakk Manor Level» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Dust Mage and Shallow Grave strategies? rss

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Ryan K
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I'm at a slight loss as how to play the minions from the Shallow Grave.

Obviously the Dust Coven Necromancer is useful for the Tide of Bones if you can get more than 2 bone piles. However what is the point of the Dust Mage? With only one action it seems like it would be better to shoot the heroes (and bind them) than to waste the action on raising a Rattle Bone with 0 armor.

Only the Dread knights seem to have any chance of breaking through the armor of a hero. Bone head's have nothing going for them without a mob factor.

This entire spawning point seems geared towards giving the heroes loot.

I suppose the only real chance of doing damage to a hero is using the Dread Knight to inflict Fragile. Which they can easily remove during the next hero's turn. In essence the most damage you could inflict in a turn would be 3 while giving them an easy 4 loot-o-meter.
 
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Ryan K
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What is the point of Renewed Vigor for the Dust Coven Necromancer?
2 action points, Augment, Wave 2, Compel 3.

This seems like a huge waste of action points just to re position your Bone Heads or Rattle Bones. When would I ever strategically use this?

Seems best to activate the Dust Coven Necromancer near the last of the round to mass Raise. (Very sad that you can only raise 4 rattle bones max).
 
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Jason Dreger
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I feel like the rattlebones should not move the lootometer. Thematically, they've been looted already. Mechanically, it allows the console to summon them without feeling like they are just loot feeding the heroes. The heroes have the ability to stomp the bones to keep them away. I want to convince my group to give this a try.
 
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Kiren Maelwulf
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Unfortunately, you are not missing some secret strategy with the Shallow Grave minions, they are simply weak. The only thing I can really suggest seems obvious, use the Dread Knights to get fragile onto the heroes and go from there. Necromancers are good for their will, mainly for initiative. Really though, I would avoid using RAISE often unless a hero has fragile on him/her, otherwise you are likely just going to feed the heroes more loot. I can’t help but feel the Shallow Grave minions are best in 3 hero games and should avoid 5 hero matches entirely.
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Brendan Little
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If all heroes have activated, then during your final activation of all your monsters, it might make sense to summon a bunch of rattle bones, and mob a hero.
 
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Nathaniel Smith
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Hello everyone,

I was told by Ryan K. to come over here and explain some mechanics that I used in my first play of this game. Yes the Shallow Grave minions of very weak...weak enough to be destroyed if you don't have the Pumpkin Patch minions to go along with them. I, personally, loved the Shallow Grave though, due to its hard hitting abilities...kind of like "Glass Cannons."

To explain, the Rattlebones with their mob ability can easily swing for 4-5 blue dice every time...with the given fact that the Heroes don't smash the bone piles. The Necromancer's Renewed Vigor....is an awful...awful action and should rarely if at all...be used in a situation. The Necromancer is there for one thing and one thing only...raise the bone piles and mob them the death. This is very effective if you've already attacked with some bone pile skeletons and they die, you can raise them on the Counsul's final turn and then attack again, effectively raising your Power Gauge while causing some damage. Yes it does give the Heroes a chance to raise the loot meter....but you're mathematically raising your chances of progressing the Power Gauge so that you can bring out the heavy hitters, DS and VonDrakk.

I'll wait a bit before continuing on with those dudes and talk about some of the other skeletons. Half of them...are awful. The Bone Heads are very bad and so are the Dust Mages. I rarely saw myself saying, "Man...hope they don't die." The Dread Kniight however is the leader of this pack and will push right through someone and inflict some serious damage if he touches someone once. The fact that you've placed three different injuries on them (Damage, Cold, Fragile) is really good...for a 2 Skull creature. I haven't seen a creature do that well...since the Pumpkin Patch that comes along with this set. The Witches are fan-freaking-tastic. They hit so hard, can hit so far away, can go so far, and can fly...that is insane for a 2 Skull. Yes, she is weaker than other models but that's why she's got 2 Hearts.

Is there anything else that I was forgetting. I currently must save my reactions and thoughts for DS and VonDrakk, as I am constrained for time right now and must leave...but do leave your thoughts and I will get back to you guys asap.

SDE Enthusiast,
Nathaniel Smith
 
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Ryan K
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Agreed, the Pumpkin Patch mobs are incredibly powerful. The Witch's toad + SkullBat mobbing can deal up to 6 damage to a zero armor 5 hp Toaded hero.

I can see the Shallow Grave minions as being useful shields to protect the Witch and Bats until they can activate.

The Kobold mob factor rarely worked for me, due to the heroes picking off anything in range. If i'm lucky the last 2 of 4 have enough dice to break through the standard hero armor. The skeletons do sound a bit better as glass cannons having a starting attack of 3 blue (same as Kobold Knucklehead), but being somewhat reusable. Still, I think that there should be 6 Rattle Bones (same number as tokens), so i'm a little confused why they changed it to 4.

I fully read the article on consul SAW strategies http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/897603/press-start-to-play-a...
where the general goal was to deny the heroes loot. But in the case of the Shallow Grave mobs, the idea seems to be to move towards the end game quicker by allowing more opportunities for both loot and power gauge.
 
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sgfdh sfdghsfdgh
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Hi, I love Super Dungeon Explore and me and my group of friends have been playing it since it was originally introduced however many years ago. Anyways.. I feel like I'm missing something. How can the witch and all 4 skull bats mobbing deal 6 damage to a hero in one go? Perhaps if you had all of the dice luck on your side.. but we who have played dice games before know that is never the case. I'm assuming you want the witch to fly in, turn a hero to a toad.. then what? Attack said toaded hero with 2blue dice from the witch in melee twice, then 1 blue die from each winged bats melee attacks? while the toad gets to dodge with a dex of 3!? At best you will get 1dmg, but i sincerely doubt it. Btw the toad is "small" which means you can only target it in melee if you were wondering.
 
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Nathaniel Smith
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How come the number is 6 instead of 4? When was this changed??
 
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Jason Dreger
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The witches special attack does knockdown. You can't use dodge while knocked down. So if the witch gets into melee and hits with her special attack, then uses her potion, the toad is really vulnerable. 4 skullbats could activate after that and gt 4 more hits. So I see an easy 5 anyway.
 
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Ryan K
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scoobydoo6775 wrote:
How can the witch and all 4 skull bats mobbing deal 6 damage to a hero in one go? Perhaps if you had all of the dice luck on your side.. but we who have played dice games before know that is never the case.


Pretty much. However remember that even in melee range a Magic X character can still shoot magic. So the Witch has 2 reasonable chances with 2B 1R vs the 0 armor of the Toad. You only have to roll 1 star (as long as they don't have armor equipped). Same with all 4 SkullBats, you only have to roll 1 star (2B will).

So yea, basically it comes down to your luck on the roll.

Even if they have some armor equipped, all is not lost. Juxtapose creates nearly the same footing if you can land it on the hero, of course you can just use the Witch's shocking bolt to make it easier to land Juxtapose. If the hero's don't remove the Vulnerable: Magic then you can continue to use SkullBats, Dust Mages, Necromancer or any magic users in your deck to continue the assault.

edit.
Actually, once they are a Toad nearly anything in your deck should be able to penetrate their 0 armor. Either go for the throat to cause 5 damage and kill them, or the slow bleed by causing as many status ailments as possible. But, if they have the Paladin or Sister of Light you're pretty much screwed as the Consul.
 
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Plei Forejoy
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Painting all these miniatures is starting to crimp my time...
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mekkaspark wrote:
scoobydoo6775 wrote:
How can the witch and all 4 skull bats mobbing deal 6 damage to a hero in one go? Perhaps if you had all of the dice luck on your side.. but we who have played dice games before know that is never the case.


Pretty much. However remember that even in melee range a Magic X character can still shoot magic. So the Witch has 2 reasonable chances with 2B 1R vs the 0 armor of the Toad. You only have to roll 1 star (as long as they don't have armor equipped). Same with all 4 SkullBats, you only have to roll 1 star (2B will).

So yea, basically it comes down to your luck on the roll.

Even if they have some armor equipped, all is not lost. Juxtapose creates nearly the same footing if you can land it on the hero, of course you can just use the Witch's shocking bolt to make it easier to land Juxtapose. If the hero's don't remove the Vulnerable: Magic then you can continue to use SkullBats, Dust Mages, Necromancer or any magic users in your deck to continue the assault.

edit.
Actually, once they are a Toad nearly anything in your deck should be able to penetrate their 0 armor. Either go for the throat to cause 5 damage and kill them, or the slow bleed by causing as many status ailments as possible. But, if they have the Paladin or Sister of Light you're pretty much screwed as the Consul.
Unless the Dodging Toad has been Knocked-Down, Immobiled, or Slowed, it may use its 3 Blue Dex instead of its 0 Armor for defense.
 
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Ryan K
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Jebbie wrote:
mekkaspark wrote:
scoobydoo6775 wrote:
How can the witch and all 4 skull bats mobbing deal 6 damage to a hero in one go? Perhaps if you had all of the dice luck on your side.. but we who have played dice games before know that is never the case.


Pretty much. However remember that even in melee range a Magic X character can still shoot magic. So the Witch has 2 reasonable chances with 2B 1R vs the 0 armor of the Toad. You only have to roll 1 star (as long as they don't have armor equipped). Same with all 4 SkullBats, you only have to roll 1 star (2B will).

So yea, basically it comes down to your luck on the roll.

Even if they have some armor equipped, all is not lost. Juxtapose creates nearly the same footing if you can land it on the hero, of course you can just use the Witch's shocking bolt to make it easier to land Juxtapose. If the hero's don't remove the Vulnerable: Magic then you can continue to use SkullBats, Dust Mages, Necromancer or any magic users in your deck to continue the assault.

edit.
Actually, once they are a Toad nearly anything in your deck should be able to penetrate their 0 armor. Either go for the throat to cause 5 damage and kill them, or the slow bleed by causing as many status ailments as possible. But, if they have the Paladin or Sister of Light you're pretty much screwed as the Consul.
Unless the Dodging Toad has been Knocked-Down, Immobiled, or Slowed, it may use its 3 Blue Dex instead of its 0 Armor for defense.


Aww, crap. You're absolutely right. This pretty much necessitates that the Witch casts Shocking bolt.
 
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Ryan K
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We only get 4 Rattle Bones, 6 Bone Piles, and 4 SkullBats.
Is there any particular reason they decided late term to reduce the number of Rattle Bones and Skull Bats? This seems pretty critical to the strategy of the Consul to be able to mob the heroes.

I'm wondering if this was just to tone down the difficulty or something. Still you could easily have way more than 6 bone piles going on at once. Can you use additional tokens for that or are you actually limited to 6?
 
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Kiren Maelwulf
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mekkaspark wrote:
We only get 4 Rattle Bones, 6 Bone Piles, and 4 SkullBats.
Is there any particular reason they decided late term to reduce the number of Rattle Bones and Skull Bats? This seems pretty critical to the strategy of the Consul to be able to mob the heroes.

I'm wondering if this was just to tone down the difficulty or something. Still you could easily have way more than 6 bone piles going on at once. Can you use additional tokens for that or are you actually limited to 6?


This was a misprint and there are fixed cards on the SPM website and somewhere on this forum.
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Evan Champie
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Upon closer reading, the 1.5 rulebook says that Control Effects such as Compel cause the target to ignore all models and rough terrain while moving.

A minor thing, but you can walk your skeletons right through a chokepoint before their turn...
 
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Hank Tickler
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I look at the Shallow Graves differently after a few play throughs. Yes rattle bones are fragile, yes boneheads aren't that great and yes dread knights are the best of the bunch. But you have to play them differently then the other minions. Think of it like this, as the Consul no matter what you do the heros are gonne get loot. No way around it. This is a good thing cause the power meter raises again too. So the idea with the rattle bones aside from positioning and mob rule, feeding the heros junk wounds to raise that power metes is great. Given that you have potentially unlimited rattle bones that cna be raised WITHOUT a spawn point this is an excellent group. Von Drakk especially, but any boss in this game greatly benefits from having minions around. So when you can feed the heros rattle bones while keeping your heavy hitters around to suppoert the boss is key.

In general the ideal situation is to hit with the dread knights, then raise rattle bones and mob the fragile hero. Throwing 3 to 6 blue dice is nothing to sneeze at, especially after all the heros have gone. Dust mages are pretty lame unless your raising rattle bones for positioning purposes. However, combine with a few skull bats and you have a hero that is a sitting duck for your mages, withces and necros. I feel that the Shallow graves have to be played differently and rely on spiking a lone hero when possible. You gotta play run away then hit in full force the at the end of the turn after the heroes have all gone. In the mean time feed them rattle bones and bone heads. Block them off with these guys, force them to waste actions killing guys youll just raise right back.

This is a very fun expansion that plays way differently from the other two and I love it. I hope this helps everyone re think this Spawn point. While not the most powerful, subtly it can be MORE powerful than the others because many people dont see it coming.
 
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Jan Jensen
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After having played quite a few games using the Shallow Graves spawnpoint I have to admit they are not THAT bad. They are definitely harder to use than other spawnpoints as a lot more timing is involved. A couple of strategies:

Keep sending rattlebones out in pairs. A hero can't get loot from killing just two. This of course has to be timed perfectly. You raise the loot-o-meter and only loose re-raise-able troops.
Veteran heroes will probably see through this strategy though...

Save the necromancer and dust mages for the end. If you can manage to accumulate a tight packed amount of bone piles around the heroes, even a few rattlebones can be devastating when they gain mob.
This is like, surprise damage at the end!

Saving the dread knights for after the heroes have activated can also be advised. If they manage to land fragile, everything pretty much auto hits. So even a couple of boneheads can suddenly turn pretty nasty.
 
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Mike Bennett
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Flarfy wrote:
After having played quite a few games using the Shallow Graves spawnpoint I have to admit they are not THAT bad. They are definitely harder to use than other spawnpoints as a lot more timing is involved. A couple of strategies:

Keep sending rattlebones out in pairs. A hero can't get loot from killing just two. This of course has to be timed perfectly. You raise the loot-o-meter and only loose re-raise-able troops.
Veteran heroes will probably see through this strategy though...

Save the necromancer and dust mages for the end. If you can manage to accumulate a tight packed amount of bone piles around the heroes, even a few rattlebones can be devastating when they gain mob.
This is like, surprise damage at the end!

Saving the dread knights for after the heroes have activated can also be advised. If they manage to land fragile, everything pretty much auto hits. So even a couple of boneheads can suddenly turn pretty nasty.


Having two sets of SG makes them much more effective. I'd argue that you should use the Necromancers like crazy. They are the main reason the others can be so effective. The Necromancers are very good at positioning minions or better Death and the Succubus. I've moved a lot of troops with those little mc chris looking dudes.
 
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