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Virgin Queen» Forums » Rules

Subject: Defender wins land battle but has no units left rss

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Alasdair Campbell
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I just want to make sure what happens when the defender wins a land battle but has no units left and the attacker does?

The defender has more hits than the attacker and so wins the battle, but in the process loses all of their units but the attacker does not.

My understanding from the rules is that if the defender has leaders present they are captured and that the attacker still has to retreat despite the fact there are no defenders left?

Have I understood the rules correctly?

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Michael Kiefte
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cillmhor wrote:

Have I understood the rules correctly?


A literal reading of the rules suggests that this is correct, albeit exceedingly rare.
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Alasdair Campbell
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Yes, this is what the rules seem to suggest, but common sense would seems to tell me that the attacker should remain in this situation, especially if they are able to capture the defender's leaders.

You're right it's probably pretty rare, but it can happen.

Or if is a defiant last stand by the defenders, then should they not be able to keep their leaders in this situation?
 
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Kristian Thy
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Gunulfr ok Øgotr ok Aslakr ok Rolfr resþu sten þænsi æftir Ful, felaga sin, ær warþ ... døþr, þa kunungar barþusk.
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cillmhor wrote:
common sense would seems to tell me


Who needs common sense when you have rules?

Determining the winner is Step 7 of the Field Battle procedure. This is where the one inflicting most damage wins.

In Step 8 you then remove the losses, and only if both sides are eliminated do you do something special: the one who rolled the most dice get to retain one unit. Winner or loser is irrelevant.

Step 9: capture leaders. Again, this section doesn't care who won or lost, it just says that if all your men are gone, so is your leader.
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Tylor Hobbs
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Thematically, you can look at it as the defenders managed to break the morale of the attackers, or otherwise force them to retreat, but it was a Pyrrhic victory and there were so few survivors left after the stand that they simply aren't a viable force anymore. Either that, or the defense was so brutal that most of the survivors simply decided to take what they could carry and desert.
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Michael Kiefte
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One possibility is that there are defenders remaining, just not enough to be represented by a counter. What is more, there are likely many examples in history where a major leader was captured by the losing side--I've just never seen it in Virgin Queen.
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Greg Forster
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Pleasant Prairie
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Hey! Institute THIS!
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turbothy wrote:
Who needs common sense when you have rules?


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Thismustbecomeamicrobadgerightnow-shutupandtakemygeekgold!
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Alasdair Campbell
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I can think of plenty of thematic explanations for it, and so I'm happy to follow the rules and forget my common sense for this one

What happened was that a 12-strength Ottoman army attacked a five-strength HRE army and some very lucky die rolls meant that both sides inflicted 5 damage. And so the defender won on a tie with hits, but at the same time lost all of their units, and their leaders. The Ottomans still had to retreat as tactical losers, but strategic winners. Makes sense, as the bloody nose given to the Ottomans would have set them back on their heels, and bought time for HRE - in other words, the Ottomans will have to spend another movement point next impulse to reoccupy the space.
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