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Subject: Kickstarter fatigue. rss

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Bippy the Goat
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[Rant]

Hey BGG mods -- mind putting kickstarters somewhere off the "Hotness" on the main page? I come to this site to discover games that actually exist. I like to read reviews and see actual componants & sometimes even buy games on a whim. I can't do that with kickstarters because they aren't games, they're projects that *might* become games at some point.

As cool as it is to see everyone's plans, they don't belong in the mix of actual products until they are done.

Thanks or listening!

[/Rant]

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Geert Vinaskov
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I agree, there's a bit much information about upcoming games. Entire geeklists dedicated to a single game that won't be released untill next year and such.

Sometimes it seems that BGG is an extention of Kickstarter. Generating hype and visibility for projects instead of existing games.

That's just how I feel.
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Mark C
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I think it's a great suggestion to have a separate hot list for upcoming titles.
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Brent Cunningham
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Have you considered that your needs and the needs of the community as a whole aren't necessarily the same?

Why not just ignore those games and find the information you are looking for?

I understand they aren't finished products sometimes, but BGG is trying to cater to the whole BGG community, not specific people. To change things on the whims of a few is impossible for a site with so many users.



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Eddie the Cranky Gamer
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The hotness is purely democratic.

So just enjoy the heady thrill of being in the minority quietly.
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Bronwyn B
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While I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other, it would be nice to have a separate "upcoming games" hotness tracker. Sometimes I want to see what's on the horizon, sometimes I want a game to buy now, and neither fulfills the requirements of the other.

But if it stays exactly the same, oh well. I can deal with 5 seconds of disappointment/annoyance every month when I click on a title that's not out yet. :-)

Speaking of which, is there an "upcoming games & reprints" forum? Cause I would like to go there if there is. :-)
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Pete Goch
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Wishing Tree Games wrote:

Why not just ignore those games and find the information you are looking for?


How?

One has to actually look into the game to find that it's still in the vaporware stages. This is why a separate categorization would be useful.
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Jonatan Rullman
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nararabbit wrote:
Sometimes I want to see what's on the horizon, sometimes I want a game to buy now, and neither fulfills the requirements of the other.


Wouldn't that be a job for the rating system rather than the extremely arbitrary hotness list?
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Alejandro G.
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I can't play a Kickstarter game. Especially when it's taking some of these publishers 6-8 months past a delivery date to get them to my hands.

Stay off the Hotness.
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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I never even see the hotness (because I have my front page configured so it doesn't appear), but I still suffer from Kickstarter fatigue. That was the basis for this thread: Kickstarting the children?

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Ryan S
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To be honest I didn't even realize kickstarter games were in the "Hotness" list.

I'd suggest you just put another filter at the top:

Games | KS | People | Company

There is a bit of a gray area tho, because games that are still not out yet (not kickstarter games) can generate a lot of buzz. Often times a news article will feature a game that is coming out soon, so it'll skyrocket in the Hotness list, and designers need that sort of pre-release recognition to have a successful launch.

Maybe the games can get promoted from the "KS" filter to the "Games" filter once they are within 3 months of getting to the hands of the consumer.
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S G
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Totally agree....and while we're restoring BGG, do something similar for that iOS crap -- I don't want pixels co-mingled with my cardboard.
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Geert Vinaskov
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Wishing Tree Games wrote:
Have you considered that your needs and the needs of the community as a whole aren't necessarily the same?


All great communities need a place where dissenting voices can say what's on their mind. Having an opinion and respectfully voicing it can only be considered a good thing.
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Brian Cox
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[Sarcasm]

Hey BGG mods -- mind putting Fantasy Flight Games somewhere off the "Hotness" on the main page? I come to this site to discover games that won't further my addiction to Star Wars. I like to read reviews and see actual components & sometimes even buy games not related to Android: Netrunner. I can't do that with Fantasy Flight Games because they aren't games, they're a way of life that *might* take over my other games at some point.

As cool as it is to see all the Fantasy Flight Games, they don't belong in the mix of other games that don't have a dozen expansions or a Star Wars theme.

Thanks or listening!

[/Sarcasm]
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Skaak
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I personally don't mind Kickstarter games in the Hotness list, but agree that it would be nice to be able to tell which games are actual products and which aren't without needing to click through them.

One possibility would be to add a bullet (or asterisk, or similar single character tag) next to titles in the list that have not been released yet. Frankly, I think that would be a lot more helpful than explicitly marking Kickstarter items, because there are Kickstarter items that have been released, Kickstarter items that are still trying to gain the money to release, and Kickstarter items that were successful but are not yet available. Plus the potential for things to show up that aren't released, but are also not on Kickstarter.
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Pete Goch
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Because comparing games from a well known game company with dozens if not hundreds of actual, honest to goodness hold 'em in your hands, set 'em up on the table and play 'em games to their name with games that exist, tenuously, and almost solely in the minds of their imaginers couldn't really be anything other than sarcasm.
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derek heath
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That's how I feel, that's why I came here late to this site BGG because my project is still a project. Because I thought kickstarter only does projects. Now I have to advertise my game as if it is a finished product. I'm 90% done with the artwork. And some of the rules are still being developed every day. When I started my kickstarter, I was told to come here and advertise I didn't feel right in doing that! Because I do feel the kickstarters are taking over. Real games are not getting the attention they deserve.

I wanted to advertise my game when it's finished. It should be around in November of this year. Then we start advertising campaign, using some of the kickstarter money to do that. Now I have to tell the gamers to be excited about a game, that they are not going to receive until December. I do agree they need a special BGG just for kickstarter only. It is important for this site to focus on gaming and keep gaming alive for the future generations to come.


my kickstarter has suffered because of my views, on advertising on a game that still a project.
derek
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Brent Cunningham
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Geert Vinaskov wrote:
Wishing Tree Games wrote:
Have you considered that your needs and the needs of the community as a whole aren't necessarily the same?


All great communities need a place where dissenting voices can say what's on their mind. Having an opinion and respectfully voicing it can only be considered a good thing.


I don't disagree...I respectfully voiced my opinion too. :-)
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Liam
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I have no more say than anyone else.

I don't mind Kickstarter games being in the hotness.

Currently by my count 9 out of the 50 titles listed in the Hotness are Kickstarters that haven't yet delivered the game.

I'd also say that the hotness was created to show users what's hot (eg what games are getting the most attention), BGG has far better ways to discover and browse games you might be interested in and what others gamers think.

I'm not sure it's fair to exclude a game that someone is working on simply because they used Kickstarter.

Theoretically, I can just about go with having a crowd funding hotness but I think it's fraught with definition difficulties (Released games getting an additional print run via Kickstarter), technical issues (When does a Kickstarted game get to join the main hotness list) and would displease as many users as it would please.
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Pedro Pereira
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Wishing Tree Games wrote:

Have you considered that your needs and the needs of the community as a whole aren't necessarily the same?

Why not just ignore those games and find the information you are looking for?

I understand they aren't finished products sometimes, but BGG is trying to cater to the whole BGG community, not specific people. To change things on the whims of a few is impossible for a site with so many users.





He got more thumbs than you, that must mean something
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Brent Cunningham
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Pedrator wrote:
Wishing Tree Games wrote:

Have you considered that your needs and the needs of the community as a whole aren't necessarily the same?

Why not just ignore those games and find the information you are looking for?

I understand they aren't finished products sometimes, but BGG is trying to cater to the whole BGG community, not specific people. To change things on the whims of a few is impossible for a site with so many users.





He got more thumbs than you, that must mean something


Yes, and some arbitrary means for users to "rate" comments is the perfect way to determine the feelings of the users at large, right?

The number of thumbs has nothing to do with the validity of my statement...they don't make it more or less true, and it really doesn't matter. I have a right to express my opinion, whether *you* like it or not.


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Justin B
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Where in "The Hotness" do you see the word "Released"? Why do you think something has to be released to be considered "Hot"? The list is showing exactly what it should be showing.
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Timothy Goddard
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I'm not sure I understand. The "hotness" refers to what people are talking about, right? And people frequently talk about upcoming games, and currently many of these use Kickstarter as a funding mechanism. Should they censor all as-yet unreleased games, or just those using Kickstarter?
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Alec Chapman
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Could KS games just have (ks) after their names until they have been funded? Then they wouldn't be out of the hotness, so democracy would be safe, but everyone who didn't care could just click on something else.
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