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Subject: $300 vs $500 Levels? rss

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Yoki Erdtman
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Alright, help me out here please. It seems to me that the $300 level is a better value than the $500 level, and here's why...

As it stands the $500 backer level receives the following over the $300 level:

- XL Cards: $15
- Expansions #4-5: $140
- XXL Figure: $? (I hope at least $45)

Add those up and you get $145 worth of stuff for an additional $200, so we must hope that the XXL figure is worth at least $45 to break even on the deal.

Of course in addition the $500 level already gets the Engraved Dice, Collector's Coin, and Argon Gass stretch goals, but odds are that so will the $300 level by the end of this campaign. And therein lies the crux, IMO, it seems that the value of the $500 level is decreasing as more stretch goals are met.

Those $28 MSRP expansion boxes are likely to be about $20 online, so my conclusion seem to be that the real value is in the $300 level. Would someone please let me know if I'm missing something?
 
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Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
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Yokiboy wrote:
Alright, help me out here please. It seems to me that the $300 level is a better value than the $500 level, and here's why...

As it stands the $500 backer level receives the following over the $300 level:

- XL Cards: $15
- Expansions #4-5: $140
- XXL Figure: $? (I hope at least $45)

Add those up and you get $145 worth of stuff for an additional $200, so we must hope that the XXL figure is worth at least $45 to break even on the deal.

Of course in addition the $500 level already gets the Engraved Dice, Collector's Coin, and Argon Gass stretch goals, but odds are that so will the $300 level by the end of this campaign. And therein lies the crux, IMO, it seems that the value of the $500 level is decreasing as more stretch goals are met.

Those $28 MSRP expansion boxes are likely to be about $20 online, so my conclusion seem to be that the real value is in the $300 level. Would someone please let me know if I'm missing something?


Looking at online prices I am thinking the $150 level is actually the best unless you plan on being part of the competition scene.
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Yoki Erdtman
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Grumsh wrote:
Looking at online prices I am thinking the $150 level is actually the best unless you plan on being part of the competition scene.

How so?

I found another thread that actually answered some of my questions by talking about the value of the $500 level, here: Question about the $500 pledge level.
 
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Brant Benoit
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The XXL figure will go for $100+ on the secondary market. You're getting a good deal on the $500 level no matter what.
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Yoki Erdtman
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Ghool wrote:
The XXL figure will go for $100+ on the secondary market. You're getting a good deal on the $500 level no matter what.

As just a collectible? They aren't even used in the game. Makes little sense to me, but then again I'm the type of person who readily pays $500 for board games, but wouldn't pay a cent for a pure collectible, so what do I know.
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Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
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Ghool wrote:
The XXL figure will go for $100+ on the secondary market. You're getting a good deal on the $500 level no matter what.


This quote has been tossed around quite a bit and I am going to speak up finally... How do we know this? That is pure conjecture do we have evidence to back this up?

There are not any of these on Ebay for sale to even give a hint that this may be fact.
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Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
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Actually to be honest, I cannot locate Krosmaster on Ebay. No miniatures no collectibles nothing. So far all we have are a few people repeating this secondary market mantra trying to encourage the $500 pledges.
 
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Brant Benoit
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Check the French eBay. You'll find lots of game figures. It's been out in France for quite some time, and if you just do a little research, you'll find that Nox and Goultard go for close to $150 on the French eBay. There's no American market because it's not released in NA yet.

How do I know that the XXL's are going for this much? Follow the comments section on the KS. A number of people have already pre-sold theirs for $150.

eBay is not the be-all-end-all of secondary sales reference points, nor is the US the only place things get released first. robot
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steven riola

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You're also getting everything in one shipment before release. As well as all stretch goals not accomplished. So argon gas is yours even I'd the goal isn't made. Same with the dice and coin. And they've mentioned there'd be an additional add on for the $500 level but haven't said what.
 
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David Hoffman
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The interesting thing, to me, with KA is the terrain and tokens.

The promos are nice enough, but it's the terrain and tokens -- the painted, resin stuff -- I keep coming back to. The question I have is whether it's worth $300 to get those (and the game stuff too).
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Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
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Ghool wrote:
Check the French eBay. You'll find lots of game figures. It's been out in France for quite some time, and if you just do a little research, you'll find that Nox and Goultard go for close to $150 on the French eBay. There's no American market because it's not released in NA yet.

How do I know that the XXL's are going for this much? Follow the comments section on the KS. A number of people have already pre-sold theirs for $150.

eBay is not the be-all-end-all of secondary sales reference points, nor is the US the only place things get released first. robot


On the European Ebay market I did locate Krosmaster starting at 4.00 Euro's and going up to 20 Euros for 8 packs. My french is shall we say pathetic so I cannot speak of rares etc but honestly if I just want a board game to play especially a board game that locally will not have any rares, does rarity matter?

Also factor in that once a none collectible version of the game enters the market the price of these rares will plummet.
 
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Yoki Erdtman
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Grumsh wrote:
On the European Ebay market I did locate Krosmaster starting at 4.00 Euro's and going up to 20 Euros for 8 packs. My french is shall we say pathetic so I cannot speak of rares etc but honestly if I just want a board game to play especially a board game that locally will not have any rares, does rarity matter?

Check out Philibertnet. In France Krosmaster is sold in blind boosters, and you can see what some of the singles cost at this store.
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Yoki Erdtman
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ohbalto wrote:
The promos are nice enough, but it's the terrain and tokens -- the painted, resin stuff -- I keep coming back to. The question I have is whether it's worth $300 to get those (and the game stuff too).

The resin terrain and tokens is part of the reason I'm only interested in the $300 and $500 levels. I just wish I could get the coins for something less than another $35.
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Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
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Maybe I am daft or maybe its years of experience watching rare commodities I just fail to grasp how a game that is being re-distributed in a none collectible format will hold any outlandish price gouging?

Imagine this scene next week Wizards of the Coast announces the release of Magic The Gathering: Histories where they will release full sets from past years in a none collectible format. The market would crash.
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Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
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Yokiboy wrote:
Grumsh wrote:
On the European Ebay market I did locate Krosmaster starting at 4.00 Euro's and going up to 20 Euros for 8 packs. My french is shall we say pathetic so I cannot speak of rares etc but honestly if I just want a board game to play especially a board game that locally will not have any rares, does rarity matter?

Check out Philibertnet. In France Krosmaster is sold in blind boosters, and you can see what some of the singles cost at this store.


Thanks Yoki those prices appear to match what I see over on Ebay in Europe.
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Brant Benoit
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The exclusives are still being kept exclusive, and only available at the $300 and $500 levels. Those are the ones fetching a hefty price, and will continue to do-so because they will still be very difficult to attain. Thus, the rarity is still maintained, as these figures won't be available outside the KS or top prizes at tournaments.

If you follow the updates, they have said what additional items the $500 pledge level gets: Large cards for all characters released so far. They have also opened up a $500 pledge level that includes the case instead of an XXL figure.
In addition they've added a dice tower to all $300 and $500 pledges.

If you just want the terrain and tokens, I'd suggest the $300 level. I personally have no need for the case, or XXL figure, and I'll buy the other expansion characters later on.
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Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
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Quoting now -

Quote:

The next set of $500 pledges will receive a Nox limited edition XXL oversized figure! These also have been limited to only 200 being produced, and all 200 of these available exclusively through Kickstarter!



That is the only thing on the kickstarter page listed as a kickstarter exclusive.

This is why I am getting confused by the championing for the $500 levels it seems like a lot of assumptions are flying around but this is the only definite exclusive I can find.
 
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Gabriel Guerrero
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You get all 8 expansions with the $500 pledge.
 
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David Hoffman
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Yokiboy wrote:
ohbalto wrote:
The promos are nice enough, but it's the terrain and tokens -- the painted, resin stuff -- I keep coming back to. The question I have is whether it's worth $300 to get those (and the game stuff too).

The resin terrain and tokens is part of the reason I'm only interested in the $300 and $500 levels. I just wish I could get the coins for something less than another $35.


Yeah. The $150 level plus $125 for the terrain and tokens makes the $300 level "make sense". Now I"m just trying to decide if I'll legitimately get $300 worth of gaming out of it, or if it'll just be another pretty thing on my gaming shelf that hardly gets played.

(I'm trying to behave)
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Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
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Devoyd wrote:
You get all 8 expansions with the $500 pledge.


This is my other concern here and I freely admit I am operating purely on conjecture and speculation from past history.

Most Online Stores offer a 30% discount on average, so we can assume the main game will OLGS apprx $50 and each expansion for $20.

So 8 expansion packs would be $160 plus $50ish for the base game (lets say $55 or even $60 to be lenient here) and we are looking at $220 to own everything. Sure the $500 pledge has more extras but... $280 worth?


Edit Because maths are tuff 4 me tuday!
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J Ry
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Grumsh wrote:
Devoyd wrote:
You get all 8 expansions with the $500 pledge.


This is my other concern here and I freely admit I am operating purely on conjecture and speculation from past history.

Most Online Stores offer a 30% discount on average, so we can assume the main game will OLGS apprx $50 and each expansion for $20.

So 8 expansion packs would be $160 plus $50ish for the base game (lets say $55 or even $60 to be lenient here) and we are looking at $220 to own everything. Sure the $500 pledge has more extras but... $280 worth?


Edit Because maths are tuff 4 me tuday!


Great thoughts here.
Take the $220.
$125 for the Tokens and Terrain. Which the only way to get them is either here through the KS, or one-two pieces at a time via conventions.
Youre getting the XL cards, which I think are worth it.

So $360 at this point. Of hard worth, if you want the terrain/ tokens.
Plus the 3 Promos that are unlocked as of now.
Most promos are base line what? $10-15?
So we are at $390-$405 with those three.
Look at the Runebound promos, little pieces of grey plastic.
Sell for $20+ typically.

The XXL figures, in theory, are worth $100ish?
The Argon Gas promo is unlikely to be reached, but the $500 level still gets em. Ive seen people offering large bits of cash for that one promo alone.
Plus youre getting the other 5 expansions now, versus waiting till the end of the year for them. If you buy them one at a time then shipping will eat up that discount.
Or you have to buy other stuff to get free shipping.
Or wait till the end of the year to get them all together and get free shipping.
The free dice tower.... yippie yeah. Another one, not a big deal here.
The dice and the coin are likely to be reached. If not theres more value at $500.
If they are and more goals are announced, then $500 gets them.
I think this is reason why no more goals have been announced at this point. And I predict it will be one goal at a time here on out.

So all that above in conjecture and worth by individual.
Is all that worth $95-$110? Perhaps.
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Brant Benoit
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You're also forgetting the 4 promos included with the $300 & $500 pledges:
Nox, Goultard (dark), Amelia, and Yugo. All of these go for 40-150 euro on eBay, and will only be available through the KS.

Overall, I think both pledges are worth it if you desire the promos, and a pimped out game. I plan on getting a lot of play out of this, but it's because my main gaming partner is my wife. The cute chibis really sold her on it, and having the terrain and tokens (along with the metallic coins) will make for a really fantastic looking game.

Like I said, if the extra promos are worth it, and you want a pimped out game, go for the $300 level. I've seen people back Kickstarters for a lot more than that with add-ons. It may be a base pledge, but you do get a lot, and comparing it to online discounters doesn't really apply here, since you're getting a number of exclusives.
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Jeffry Welfare
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Grumsh wrote:
Maybe I am daft or maybe its years of experience watching rare commodities I just fail to grasp how a game that is being re-distributed in a none collectible format will hold any outlandish price gouging?


Except the pieces that people are talking of being in the 40+ EUR region are the promo pieces, not ones from the regular set. The number of Nox and Argon figures and such that are being added to the supply is only so much, and what's more most of those pieces are going into the hands of people that will have only one and have no desire to sell. Why would prices drop?

Grumsh wrote:
Imagine this scene next week Wizards of the Coast announces the release of Magic The Gathering: Histories where they will release full sets from past years in a none collectible format. The market would crash.


No it wouldn't. One type of card would be the original and would hold a significant part of it's value because of that. The other would be less valuable because it is a re-release.
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Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
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JeffryW wrote:
Grumsh wrote:
Maybe I am daft or maybe its years of experience watching rare commodities I just fail to grasp how a game that is being re-distributed in a none collectible format will hold any outlandish price gouging?


Except the pieces that people are talking of being in the 40+ EUR region are the promo pieces, not ones from the regular set. The number of Nox and Argon figures and such that are being added to the supply is only so much, and what's more most of those pieces are going into the hands of people that will have only one and have no desire to sell. Why would prices drop?

This is still what I am puzzled about I have re=read the kickstarter page, used Ctrl+F and just used the internet. Nowhere does it say these promos are kickstarter exclusives. They have yet to claim these will not be in a future 4 pack for $28.

I think you all have actually helped me decide 100% not to back this game (handing out thumbsup ) I think I finally realize what is bugging me so much abut this campaign. It is the certain ambiguities and the out of whack price structures for the components. $35 for 60 plastic coins? $50 for some resin trees? Some quick internet search at various places such as Reaper miniatures tells you these prices are very much on the high end.
Quote:

Grumsh wrote:
Imagine this scene next week Wizards of the Coast announces the release of Magic The Gathering: Histories where they will release full sets from past years in a none collectible format. The market would crash.


No it wouldn't. One type of card would be the original and would hold a significant part of it's value because of that. The other would be less valuable because it is a re-release.


If they re-released the original cards they would indeed tank the market because you couldn't tell the originals from the new ones. If you are speaking of re-making them then yes I think that too would tank the market look at games such as Merchants of Venus or Descent for proof of that.

Edit: Thanks to the last minute updates to the pledge and the comments from other posters insuring me I was basically wrong with my thought process (ya I was wrong it happens!!) I backed the game in the end.
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George J. Wendt
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FWIW, I asked them about the exclusive status on items a couple days ago and got the following response:

Quote:
The $500 level includes the tokens, terrain, all 8 expansions and the XXL figure. And all 8 promos. And the collector's Coin, the dice upgrade, etc. It does not include the Kama Coins, the Tshirt, and the Carrying case.

The promos and terrain/tokens will be available "as supplies last" from convention exclusives and the like, but not as retail items (you won't find them in a store). This will be your best bet on getting everything all at once.

Glad to help, let me know if you have any more questions.


I hope that helps people make their decision.
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