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Subject: New FFG Edition rss

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Corey Konieczka
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Bruno has posted a wonderful article about the History of this edition of Warrior Knights.

Check it out Here:
http://www.faidutti.com/index.php?Module=mesjeux&id=254&fich...
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Dane Peacock
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Bruno Faidutti re-designing Warrior Knights is like Halle Berry re-designing a hot fudge sundae; it’s all good.

I enjoy reading Bruno's stuff. He is always candid and insightful.
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David Turner
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The rules for new thew edition are available online

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/warriorknights_support.htm...
 
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Hilary Hartman
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What a great write-up! Thanks for the post!
 
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Jay Little
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I was fortunate enough to be contacted by Bruno when he was tasked with redesigning Warrior Knights and got to playtest his envisioning. I really enjoyed it. I was disappointed to hear that not all the developments were going to be included.

After reading the official rules to the new version by FFG, I think I actually prefer Bruno's treatment. It's hard to be definitive, since I haven't actually gotten to play the new FFG system. There is a certain charm and old school feel -- but with the benefit of modern tweaking and design -- that I felt Bruno really captured in his revision.

Being the nerd that I am, I wrote up about 10 pages of feedback from our playtest sessions. It's interesting to compare the notes from my feedback and Bruno's rules with the FFG version.
 
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Paul Ollenberger
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If it's so interesting, then please share!
 
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Mike zebrowski
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Wyrenn wrote:
If it's so interesting, then please share!


Please don't. It would be highly unethical.

Mike Z
 
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Jorge Montero
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I played the Faidutti prototype, and I just read the official rules. I won't mention any differences here, to try to avoid the wrath of the local FFG enforcer. What I can say is that the game seemed to go in the complete opposite direction of where I'd have liked. I had high hopes about the game, but I don't think I'll be picking this one up. I guess I'm not part of the target market.
 
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Arcadian Del Sol
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If nothing else, the new edition looks absolutely beautiful - and from the snapshots I've viewed, it would seem that if for no other reason, its worth picking this up and digging around the internet for an old scanned copy of the original rules.
 
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Paul Ollenberger
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All right, here's a different question. In your perfect world, what would be different (from the FFG published rules) in the new Warrior Knights?

Is it the card driven system? The lack of dice? What? As far as I can tell from the new rules Warrior Knights should kick ass!
 
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Derek Carver
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As the inventor of the original Warrior Knights I intend to stay out of any debate that might ensue regarding Original v. New, once the FF version is published. And, of course, in the middle of all of this comes the Faidutti/Clequin version known only to a select group involved in the testing. But any discussion, although interesting, is academic. Only one version will now be available (apart from second-hand), which will be the new one. What is certain is that the physical quality of the new product will be far superior to the original - Games Workshop being a minor player in games production in those days, who couldn't afford sturdy components.

And, as with all games, rules are not Holy Writ - nor is there any Games Police to knock at your door ensuring you are observing them. I am a great fan of Age of Steam who was lured by the beauty of Railroad Tycoon. I now realise that both have something to offer and have already incorporated some of the rules of RT into AoS, which frankly I prefer. I have not yet seen the rules of the new Warrior Knights but I'm sure that somehow or other any preference your grouop might have for earlier rules should be able to integrated with the new version somehow or another, even if it might involve introducing special 'bits', which we all have.

As the original inventor I regard the work that Bruno, Pierre and now Corey have put into the game as a compliment and personally am greatly interested in seeing the result of their new approach. If I don't like aspects of it - OK; I need merely to 'tweak' it to my personal liking, as I know folk did with my original.

Derek Carver
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David Turner
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I tweak 80% of the games I play, but I don't ever remember tweaking yours. A very stong game. Thank you for your insight.





Carver wrote:
If I don't like aspects of it - OK; I need merely to 'tweak' it to my personal liking, as I know folk did with my original.

Derek Carver
 
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Grant Jentoft
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Any idea about a release date?
 
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Christian Letourneau
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From what I read elsewhere, april.

Christian
 
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Steve Green
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Derek . . . thanks for your insight. I've always wondered what game designers think when the copyrights to one of their "kids" gets passed along to another firm, and they decide to revamp the title.

I've never seen nor played the original, but this one has me interested. Why you might ask? Well, I was dragged kicking and screaming into a game of Blood Royale once many years ago, and it became one of my Top 10 games of all time. There's just something about that game that strikes many notes beautifully. I will happily give any game you've invented a go . . . even if it turns out to be a revision of one of your titles.

Speaking of which, I've read that FFG has also scheduled Blood Royale for the revisionist treatment. Do you have anything at all to do with this? Do they even contact you and say "Hey Derek, we've picked up the rights to Blood Royale and we're going to give it to so-and-so to revise. Just thought you should know?" Or do you hear about these things like the rest of us, in the trade press?

Again, many thanks for all you've done for the hobby!
 
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Derek Carver
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You ask Steve whether original designers are ever consulted about revamps of their games. I guess it varies from company to company and according to the terms of the agreement. With every game I have had published I have only given permission if I had the power of veto over any changes. This doesn't mean I dug my heels in and blocked changes; it merely meant that I had to feel they complemented my own thinking about the game. But once the game is out there as I wanted it to be I am not so obdurate. Folk have already seen what I wanted it to be.

In the case of Fantasy Flight they have acquired full rights, so I'm not in the frame. Nor would I wish to be. Fantasy Flight represent new thinking, whilst I am too close to the original to view it differently. Or, maybe I should say, radically differentlyl.

So to answer your question, No, I know no more about BLOOD ROYAL than you do. In fact, I in no way envy the guy who will be given the game to 'modernise'. BLOOD ROYAL was not so much of a game as a 'way of life'. I'm sure you realised this when you played it! It had no real end - a bit like D&D. It is where boardgaming met role-playing. But if Fantasy Flight are able to encapsulate all of that into a normal boardgame format I will be the first to be pleased about it.

And - thanks for the nice things you said.

Derek
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Mike zebrowski
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It has been well over a year since I last played the original, so my memory of it is hazy at best.

Practically everything has changed in some way. While many of the concepts remain the same, how they are implemented has changed.

Here's a dozen differences:

1) The largest change is the order of play. In the orginal game, the order of play is a standard checklist common to pre-euro designs. In the new game, the order of play is card driven. This changes the game in an extremely large number of subtle and not-so-subtle ways.

2) The map has been changed from a square grid to a hexagon grid. No real change to game play other than allowing the graphics to flow a bit better.

3) A coastline and ports have been added. This is a major change as now sea movement adds a new attack vector.

4) Noble castles have been removed. In the old game, each noble had a pre-defined location where they could re-appear on the board after dying. In the new game, nobles can re-enter the game at a controlled city or stronghold.

5) Faith has been added. In the original game, you just had to suck up whatever the Fate deck sent you. In the new game, you can cancel bad news with Faith.

6) How Fate cards are drawn has changed. In the orginal game, each Baron draw a Fate card at the start of their movement phase. In the new game, the Head of Church decides who gets the next Fate card when the "Draw a Fate Card" card pops up, typically 1.7 times per turn.

7) Sieges take 2 turns instead of 1-5 turns.

8) Monetary numbers have been reduced to single whole numbers. In the original game, money was tracked down to the 1/2 coin with the cheapest troop being 2.5 Coin. In the new game, the cheapest troop in 1 Coin.

9) Combat in the original game was with a CRT table. Combat in the new game is with card draws.

10) The distinction between being in a town/castle/stronghold has been removed. Defenders are assumed to be in the town/stronghold (if they control it) when attacked.

11) The Assembly is very different. In the original game, it was a straight voting mechanic. In the new game it is a bidding mechanic.

12) Winning conditions are different. In the orginal game, a player won by controlling 1/2 of the un-Razed cities on the board. In the new game, there is a countdown timer. When the timer reaches zero, the player with the most influence wins the game.

Mike Z
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Jay Little
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Thanks for taking the time to summarize all this Mike -- that's a great summary of the differences.

In your games, how long would you say the new version plays out?

My guess is that it'll fall somewhere in the 4-5 hour range for a full table for their first game, probably closer to 3-4 once folks are more familiar with the rules.
 
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Mike zebrowski
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During playtesting, with new players, the games lasted between 2 to 4 hours after rules explination (about 30 minutes).

There are three factors the will determine the length of the game:

1) The groups play style. If your group tends to negotiate alot, the game will naturally last longer.

2) The number of players. With 4 players, I could finish a game in just over 2 hours. With 6 player, I could finish a game in just under 4 hours.

3) The number of Influence/player that you use. One of the nifty things about the new design is that the number of Influence Points/player that you use will greatly alter the feel of the game.

The standard game, 12 points/player, will end around the time that last neutral city is captured.

The short game, 10 points/player will end way before the last neutral city is captured. In this game, it is very important to attack other players early in order to prevent them from scoring points.

The long game, 15+ points/player will have a more traditional feel to it as players will first take over all of the neutral cities and then start to attack each other.

Mike Z
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Nate Merchant
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hibikir wrote:
I played the Faidutti prototype, and I just read the official rules. I won't mention any differences here, to try to avoid the wrath of the local FFG enforcer. What I can say is that the game seemed to go in the complete opposite direction of where I'd have liked. I had high hopes about the game, but I don't think I'll be picking this one up. I guess I'm not part of the target market.


I am very, very interested in this game and just read Bruno's notes about it. It seems that he's pretty content with how things turned out. But I hope they didn't give the game the usual FFG treatment (more layers, more bits, more STUFF!) I'd love to see the rules to Bruno's prototype to compare.
 
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Steve Bernhardt
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Read the rules and looked at the game last night... My game store got a copy at GAMA. The game looks extremely good, and seems to incorporate the stuff that I liked the most from AH's Kingmaker. I didn't play the original WK, so I dont know if this is new stuff or not.

I must say, the artwork on the cards is probably the best ive seen in any game ive ever owned. Simply amazing.
 
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Matt
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Why hasn't anyone reviewed this game? Is it too new yet?
 
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Brad Miller
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I have to agree that having read the rules, it does look a lot like a cleaned-up and streamlined Kingmaker. The cards resolving the battles reminded me of a cleaned up We The People/Hannibal. I'm looking forward to it...
 
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Mike zebrowski
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matt71 wrote:
Why hasn't anyone reviewed this game? Is it too new yet?


It isn't out yet. There were some preview copies giving away at GAMA.

Mike Z
 
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Matt
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It isn't out yet? So I guess the rating it has here on BGG is for the older version?
 
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