Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
14 Posts

Terra Mystica» Forums » Rules

Subject: Buying extra Spades when getting free Spades rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Nick Knutsen
Norway
Oslo
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
The rules say: "If the Spades gained via a Power action or Bonus card do not suffice to transform a Terrain space into your Home terrain, you may exchange Workers for the missing Spades (at the current Exchange rate of your Exchange track)."

In this case, can I pay for Spades to transform the Terrain space to something other than my Home terrain? Or can I only pay for more Spades to transform into my Home terrain? (Remember, I'm talking about when you get free Spades here. I'm aware that this is allowed when you take the Transform and Build action directly.)

Most people on the forums assume that I can buy extra Spades to transform into any type of terrain. I also think that's the case. But it could also be that this has a similar restriction as the rule about applying unused free Spades to another space (i.e. only allowed when you transform the initial space into your Home terrain).

Anyway, I've searched the forums and I haven't seen an authoritative answer to this.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dominic Lauke
Germany
Görlitz
Sachsen
flag msg tools
badge
Sponsored by AR147
Avatar
mb
Quote:
(Remember, I'm talking about when you get free Spades here. I'm aware that this is allowed when you take the Transform and Build action directly.)


With these power actions or bonus cards you get a normal "transform and build" action. So the same rules will apply.



2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Knutsen
Norway
Oslo
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Jordan Kane wrote:
With these power actions or bonus cards you get a normal "transform and build" action. So the same rules will apply.

Not quite. You can never transform two Terrain spaces with a normal Transform and Build action.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Knutsen
Norway
Oslo
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Hey, Helge! I see that you're replying in some of the other threads. Could you reply to this one too?

I'd like to have a definitive answer for the FAQ I made: Terra Mystica FAQ

Thanks.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Helge Ostertag
Germany
Hofheim
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
PunchBall wrote:
The rules say: "If the Spades gained via a Power action or Bonus card do not suffice to transform a Terrain space into your Home terrain, you may exchange Workers for the missing Spades (at the current Exchange rate of your Exchange track)."

In this case, can I pay for Spades to transform the Terrain space to something other than my Home terrain?


You can exchange workers for the missing spades towards your hometerrain, but if you use the power action or bonus card to terraform into a direction away from your hometerrain, you can't pay additional workers (destructive use won't be encouraged).
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Knutsen
Norway
Oslo
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for the ruling!

Hmmm, that made it more complicated though... That means that there's sometimes restrictions on when you can buy Spades to dig in one direction but not the other direction. It'll be tough to phrase as a set of concise rules.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Deignan
United States
Fremont
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm sure someone else has thought this and posted this, but wouldn't this whole spade problem be solved by just saying "You can't go the long way on the dial, and you can't terraform away from your home terrain?"

After all, the idea is we're terraforming races trying to become the dominant group on the planet. That's done by terraforming, not artificially manufacturing victory points.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Knutsen
Norway
Oslo
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
I changed 2.1 in the FAQ to reflect this.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mik Svellov
Denmark
Copenhagen N
EU
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Zestrenocya wrote:
I'm sure someone else has thought this and posted this, but wouldn't this whole spade problem be solved by just saying "You can't go the long way on the dial, and you can't terraform away from your home terrain?"

That was the suggestion made right after Essen when
Dan Blum
United States
Wilmington
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
complained about the possible abuse of the Spade Scoring tile. This suggestion was neglected by the designer in favor of simply changing rules to preventing the Spade scoring tile from appearing in round 5+6. Go figure!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Olivier D.
France
Brulain
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
... And I think it was also way more elegant and easy to explain than the current ruling :

Players can terraform in any direction, but have to stop on home terrain, with a max of 6 spades, unless a free spade action was used in which case no extra spades can be bought if terraforming away from home terrain.

The "no spade bonus in 5+6" is fine, though.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Viktor Karlsson Mantel
Sweden
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
SO when terraform, a race must terraform to his own terrain(at once, no stoping and continue next round), and he need to do this the shortest possible way?

Have I understood it correctly?


Edit: checked the rules and found that this part is not as I thought it was(at once, no stoping and continue next round)

But I still wonder about the other thing!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Knutsen
Norway
Oslo
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Tolchock wrote:
SO when terraform, a race must terraform to his own terrain(at once, no stoping and continue next round), and he need to do this the shortest possible way?

Have I understood it correctly?


No, it's not that simple. Have you read the FAQ? I think it's stated pretty clearly there now. The most important thing is that you can always stop transforming before reaching your Home terrain. That's pretty common to do sometimes. The other rules about this are a bit more esoteric and will only matter in rare cases. For instance you would almost always transform the shortest route to your Home terrain. But you don't have to.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert
United States
Lebanon
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
designer
Penny Press Kickstarter: 1,284 backers - $60,376! Amazing! Thank you!!!
badge
Play Penny Press!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Horologiom wrote:
You can exchange workers for the missing spades towards your hometerrain, but if you use the power action or bonus card to terraform into a direction away from your hometerrain, you can't pay additional workers (destructive use won't be encouraged).


Unofficial FAQ on BGG wrote:
If you use these free Spades to transform by the shortest route towards your Home terrain on the Transformation cycle, you may also spend Workers (according to the current Exchange rate) to transform the Terrain space further.


PunchBall wrote:
Have you read the FAQ? I think it's stated pretty clearly there now.


I think they got that quote wrong in the FAQ. The transformation circle is a circle, and either way on the circle transforms towards your home terrain. So you don't have to go shortest route to be able to spend workers.

Helge says (I think) that you can't spend workers if you start on your home terrain and transform away from it using "free" spades.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Knutsen
Norway
Oslo
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
RobertDD wrote:
Helge says (I think) that you can't spend workers if you start on your home terrain and transform away from it using "free" spades.

So you could take a Power action for, say, 2 Spades, transform a space from your Home terrain to a terrain two steps away, but in this case may not buy more Spades? But you could transform a space that is already one step from your Home terrain, into a terrain even further away and then also buy more Spades to get it even further away??

No, that would be an even odder rule. You are allowed to transform your Home terrain (as long as you start on it), either via buying Spades as normal, or taking a Power action. Why have the arbitrary rule that you can't do both? Look at the rules from the rulebook:

Terra Mystica rulebook wrote:
Spades may only be applied to a single Terrain space. However, there are two special cases:

• If the Spades gained via a Power action or Bonus card do not suffice to transform a Terrain space into your Home terrain, you may exchange Workers for the missing Spades (at the current Exchange rate of your Exchange track).

• When gaining 2 Spades, if you only need one of them to transform a Terrain space into your Home terrain, you may apply the second Spade on another Terrain space. However, you may not place a Dwelling on this second space.

The point here is that the primary function of the Power actions is to transform (wholly or partially) into your Home terrain.

The second rule says you get to split the Spades if you reach you Home terrain on one hex. (The second hex doesn't have to reach it.)

The first rule says you get to buy more Spades to reach your Home terrain. The point Helge is making now is that you're supposed to try to reach your Home terrain in order to be allowed to add more Spades. That means transforming towards it, not away from it, i.e. it means going the short route. But, like all Transform and Build actions, you're not required to ultimately reach your Home terrain in one action.

But by extension, I assume this must mean that you're not allowed to do what you were describing either: If you start on your Home terrain, you don't get to add more Spades. (Neither direction is the short route to your Home terrain, so to speak.)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.