Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
8 Posts

Combat Commander: Pacific» Forums » Rules

Subject: Thompson SMG and BAR MG and Sustained Fire action. rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Jim Jackson

Gastonia,
North Carolina
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Once again another question.

Do the Thompson SMG and the BAR MG count as "machineguns" for the purposes of the Sustained Fire Action. In other words, can I play a Sustained Fire Action and gain the +2 FP, if the only machinegun in the fire group is a Thompson SMG and/or a BAR MG?

Thanks in advance for any assistance.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Pardoe
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
Falcon2 wrote:
Do the Thompson SMG and the BAR MG count as "machineguns" for the purposes of the Sustained Fire Action.

In game terms, a weapon that can use the sustained fire action will have MG or MORTAR as part of its name. If you look at these specific counters:


you will see they are called Thompson and BAR MG. So of the two, sustained action can only be played with the BAR MG. The Thompson (no SMG) can not use the Sustained Fire action.

Postcript Edit:
To answer the "why not" and Chad's design decision, this has been discussed before. Chad's comments in: Re: Thompson / weapon usage are worth reposting here in their entirety:

Chad Jensen wrote:
Because they are SUBmachineguns, not straight machine guns. The former generally had a larger calibre ammunition but had shorter barrels and thus a smaller muzzle velocity which equated to shorter range. Either a Thompson or a "true" machine gun will give you a nice +1 to the fire group at short range, but only the latter will work as effectively at long ranges.

In straight game terms, to be considered a "Machine Gun" a weapon must have "MG" in its title -- the Thompson is not a MG (technically it's a "machine pistol") so that nomenclature would have been incorrect.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Simone dalla Chiesa
Italy
Cassina de' Pecchi
Milano
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
Falcon2 wrote:
Once again another question.

Do the Thompson SMG and the BAR MG count as "machineguns" for the purposes of the Sustained Fire Action. In other words, can I play a Sustained Fire Action and gain the +2 FP, if the only machinegun in the fire group is a Thompson SMG and/or a BAR MG?

Thanks in advance for any assistance.


Interesting question. You have noticed that "machine guns" are nowhere identified with "weapon counters" (or even "units", see the "LMG Team" of Svidrov's Garrison in CC: Stalingrad) bearing a "MG" ("MG - Machine Gun" in the Glossary) as part of their name. Rather, what they are can be inferred by the the definition of "Weapon" in the Glossary: "Any small counter with a weapon illustration such a machine gun or mortar". This means that one must judge from the illustration, and while a mortar is a mortar (but to me the toy Brixia mortar in CC: Mediterranean is rather more of a granade launcher), is any automatic weapon in the game a "machine gun"?

It helps the general concept of "Sustained Fire": continuous automatic weapon fire that can cause jamming. In this sense, since BARs and Thompsons can jam when overused, they are "machine guns".

Edit: Chad's (and Richard's) clarification overrules all I wrote, but the fact is that the Rules do not define MGs on the basis of what is written on the counter.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Jackson

Gastonia,
North Carolina
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks Richard,

I would have never even thought of those distinctions. Thanks!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephen Stewart
United States
Visalia
California
flag msg tools
badge
It's sooo Hot out here...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Falcon2 wrote:
Thanks Richard,

I would have never even thought of those distinctions. Thanks!


Couldn't BAR's be used belt fed as well? I don't know. and had a bipod


Thompsons could not...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chick Lewis
United States
Claremont
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thompsons and BARs are both magazine-fed.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Jackson

Gastonia,
North Carolina
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Both the Thompson and Bar are individual weapons, no team required to operate.

The Thompson, was a .45 caliber weapon, the ammo was either fed by a stick magazine or a drum magazine. Normal stick mag was 20 rounds, drum was 50 rounds. Drum magazine, is what is seen in "gangster movies". Stick is what was normally used in military. Not belt feed.

The BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle), is a 30.06 (thirty ought six: popular deer hunting rifle) , with a 20 round stick magazine. (just saw a drum magazine on internet for BAR, in WII they may have had drum magazine, however; I have never seen a drum magazine during that conflict) Not belt feed.

Of course, both weapons are fully automatic weapons.

It's like the Thompson was an automatic machine "pistol" and the BAR was a machine "rifle".

Both fully automatic, therefore; both machineguns, both deadly!

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Henrythesecond
United Kingdom
Camborne
Cornwall
flag msg tools
badge
A future player sleeps...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Curious thread. I've never seen the Thompson sub-machine gun (or any similar WWII SMG) referred to as a straight Machine Gun before. In game terms, the BAR is treated as a MG, but again, I don't believe it's usually considered a MG.

A MG is generally defined by capability (fully automatic fire) and role (crew-served, fire support).

Just my 2p.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.