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Android: Netrunner» Forums » Rules

Subject: Whirlpool + Snitch ... rss

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Scott Kincaid
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So whirlpool has a subroutine that prevents the runner from jacking out during the run that it goes off.

Snitch specifically says that the runner can jack out before encountering ice that he snitches.

So if whirlpool went off , can the runner use snitch to jack out still , effectively nullifying whirlpool's effect ?

If so ... that means snitch might have just gotten better.
 
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Jan Bazynski
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Vash2002 wrote:
So whirlpool has a subroutine that prevents the runner from jacking out during the run that it goes off.

Snitch specifically says that the runner can jack out before encountering ice that he snitches.

So if whirlpool went off , can the runner use snitch to jack out still , effectively nullifying whirlpool's effect ?

If so ... that means snitch might have just gotten better.


Nope. Abilities that say you can't do something are more important htan abilities that allow you to do stuff. So you can't use a snitch after whirlpool triggers.
 
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Alejandro G.
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The corp isn't rezzing Whirlpool at that point. You are just exposing it. You could jack out at this point because you did not continue the run and the corp did not rez the ice.

I apparently can't read today.
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Jack Keys
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Jan is correct, you would not be able to use Snitch to jack out once the Whirlpool subroutine goes off. However, if you used Snitch on Whirlpool, you would be able to jack out before encountering Whirlpool.
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Scott Kincaid
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thanks guys !
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Witold Jakubowski
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bazyn wrote:
Abilities that say you can't do something are more important htan abilities that allow you to do stuff.


On what ground, if I may ask? Is it pure reason or the rules say so? Because it's not so clear to me.
 
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Steven Tu
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donmakaron wrote:
bazyn wrote:
Abilities that say you can't do something are more important htan abilities that allow you to do stuff.


On what ground, if I may ask? Is it pure reason or the rules say so? Because it's not so clear to me.


I don't have the rule book handy, but there is a part that says cant abilities trump can abilities.
 
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Alejandro G.
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Page 21 of the Rulebook:

If an effect prohibits a player from doing something, usually by
using the word “cannot,” it always takes precedence over other
effects unless another effect explicitly overrides it.
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Steven Tu
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xpiredsodapop wrote:
Page 21 of the Rulebook:

If an effect prohibits a player from doing something, usually by
using the word “cannot,” it always takes precedence over other
effects unless another effect explicitly overrides it.


Actually, I took it as given from before, but this rule seems not to be particularly clear on the can vs can't jack out thing...

"Unless another effect explicitly overrides it" sounds like snitch can override because it "explicitly" says you can blah blah blah and jack out...

What exactly does explicitly mean? Does it have to say "snitch may override whirlpool" to be explicit?
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Alejandro G.
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Pulling this from a Reddit post discussing this:

"If snitch exposes whirlpool, you can obviously jack out because the subroutine hasn't triggered yet.

If snitch is used after whirlpool has already triggered, you can't jack out, because 'cant' effects always trump 'may' abilities."


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Witold Jakubowski
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Thanks! Missed it.

But still - one can argue that Snitch is explicit enough. Yet nevermind. I guess it's clear for me now. Thanks again!
 
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Steven Tu
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xpiredsodapop wrote:
Pulling this from a Reddit post discussing this:

"If snitch exposes whirlpool, you can obviously jack out because the subroutine hasn't triggered yet.

If snitch is used after whirlpool has already triggered, you can't jack out, because 'cant' effects always trump 'may' abilities."




That doesn't really answer what it means to be "explicit", does the can effect have to name the can't card to "explicitly" override it?
 
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Scott Awesome
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Tuism wrote:
xpiredsodapop wrote:
Page 21 of the Rulebook:

If an effect prohibits a player from doing something, usually by
using the word “cannot,” it always takes precedence over other
effects unless another effect explicitly overrides it.


Actually, I took it as given from before, but this rule seems not to be particularly clear on the can vs can't jack out thing...

"Unless another effect explicitly overrides it" sounds like snitch can override because it "explicitly" says you can blah blah blah and jack out...

What exactly does explicitly mean? Does it have to say "snitch may override whirlpool" to be explicit?


I dont think there will be a "card x trumps card y's ability" printed on card x, but there might be something printed that says "card x can do z effect, regardless"(hopefully in better language) or "card x can always do z effect." And I know in game of thrones, sometimes things are immune to various types of effects (location, character, triggered, etc).

edited to trump cannot rule.
 
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Alejandro G.
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You cannot overrides you may.
 
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Scott Awesome
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xpiredsodapop wrote:
You cannot overrides you may.

Then maybe it will say "can." Or maybe "always" trumps "cannot."
 
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Harold Tessmann III
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xpiredsodapop wrote:
You cannot overrides you may.

…unless another effect explicitly overrides it. From the rule book quote that you posted above:

Netrunner rule book wrote:
If an effect prohibits a player from doing something, usually by using the word “cannot,” it always takes precedence over other effects unless another effect explicitly overrides it.

I don't claim either way that we do or do not have an explicit override in this case. But to you, what wording would explicitly override this “cannot”?
 
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Alejandro G.
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If an effect prohibits a player from doing something, usually by
using the word “cannot,” [The Runner cannot jack out for the remainder of this run. -Whirlpool] it always takes precedence over other
effects [You may then jack out. -Snitch] unless another effect explicitly overrides it.


You cannot overrides you may.

Page 21, bottom right under, "Negative Effects".
 
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An explicit override would be worded as:

Once per run, you may expose an unrezzed piece of ice when you approach it. You may then jack out, even if another effect prevents you from doing so.
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Steven Tu
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Ripshawd wrote:
An explicit override would be worded as:

Once per run, you may expose an unrezzed piece of ice when you approach it. You may then jack out, even if another effect prevents you from doing so.


Great catch, I like that interpretation. Stuff like stimhack has that wording and it makes sense.

That was all I was looking for
 
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Philip Goldfarb Styrt
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Other potential wordings:

"Even if another effect would prevent you from doing so"
"This ability cannot be negated or prevented"
"No effect can prevent you from using this ability"
 
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Jack Kelly
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See also: http://www.netrunneronline.com/cards/jack-attack/ (Smarteye was the old netrunner's snitch).
 
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Jack Keys
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endgame wrote:
See also: http://www.netrunneronline.com/cards/jack-attack/ (Smarteye was the old netrunner's snitch).


While this can be helpful to see how things were handled in the past, no rulings from the original Netrunner can be directly used for Android: Netrunner. They are different games, and even have some significant rules changes.
 
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Justin Dugger

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On the plus side, you can still expose an ice, just in case the corp decides not to rez it.
 
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Jack Kelly
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skiesbleed wrote:
endgame wrote:
See also: http://www.netrunneronline.com/cards/jack-attack/ (Smarteye was the old netrunner's snitch).


While this can be helpful to see how things were handled in the past, no rulings from the original Netrunner can be directly used for Android: Netrunner. They are different games, and even have some significant rules changes.


Absolutely. I'd take the old rulings as informative but not binding.
 
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Anon Y. Mous
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What's the next argument going to be? Asking if Inside Job lets you make a run after being hit by Uroboros?
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