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Subject: why aren't people going rabid over this? rss

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Byron Campbell
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As of a few minutes ago, there's an open slot at the "rookie agent" early bird pledge level, which gets you he game and stretch rewards for $75. This is, in my opinion, a great value, so why is that slot open now when it wasn't a few days ago?

This game seems to have all the elements of a highly successful KS campaign, but (even though it has exceeded its goal) it has been moving fey slowly since soon after launch. Why? It has miniatures, which everyone seems to love. The gameplay video looked solid. It reminds me a LOT of Gears of War, which isn't a bad thing at all. The stretch rewards are very enticing, yet people seem hesitant to buy into it. I hope this improves as the campaign goes on, because I want my G-DROID, Beast, and VR training room!

I can't help but compare this game to MYTH, which was hugely successful. They are both miniatures based cooperative games. MYTH got you a ton of miniatures, but the actual gameplay looked really bland and unpolished compared with this one. I know people have complained about the amount of plastic versus the price, but you are not paying for a box of toys. My only concern about content is the lack of map tiles...4 seems incredibly low, which is why we need to hit some stretch goals!

Is it just a timing issue (everybody blew their KS budget over the inferior MYTH), or what?

EDIT: Breaking silence to say that I stand corrected about MYTH. I just looked at the KS page, and they added a LOT of stretch goals since the last time I looked at the game and decided it was not for me (at about the same point in its campaign as GD is now). So it is a rather good value for your money, to the point where I have serious questions about their ability to actually get all those miniatures to all the backers without eating a loss. $100 for what looks like close to 100 miniatures in dozens of different sculpts, plus everything else that comes in the game...that's just unreal.

Lots of great responses in this thread, particularly from pomomojo, who I think hit the nail squarely on the head.

One thing is confusing me. I've seen some people mention that to get the complete game, you need to spend $120, and that's just not true. You need to spend $90 (or less with early bird) for the complete game. $120 gets you the complete game plus the KS-exclusive minis, so you can't really compare that $120 with the retail price of the game. $90 gets you the same product that will hit store shelves, plus any KS-only stretch goals, minus the add-ons.

Withdrawing back into my temple of solitude now.
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Joel Eddy
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kittenhoarder wrote:
Is it just a timing issue (everybody blew their KS budget over the inferior MYTH), or what?


Or Krosmaster, Reapers, Zombicide 2, etc.....
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noah caldwell
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I agree this game looks bad a$$... im thinking It has to do with the over sea pricing. Where myth was a lot easier on the wallet with local distributing..who knows just a guess! But the game looks sweet..
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I agree that this game seems to have a lot more depth than Myth. Ultimately that's what kept me out of their KS and in for GD. Shipping outside of the US and the perceived lack of miniatures seem to be factors in the GD KS. Hopefully with the announcements next week this KS gets blown wide open. At least that's what Gremlin has been teasing us with for the last week or so. We should see a combat vid within the next 24 hours too.
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Rauli Kettunen
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kittenhoarder wrote:
The gameplay video looked solid.


Hexes + bright colors = gulp .

Quote:
It reminds me a LOT of Gears of War, which isn't a bad thing at all.


Already have GoW, why would I need another?
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Byron Campbell
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eekamouse wrote:
kittenhoarder wrote:
Is it just a timing issue (everybody blew their KS budget over the inferior MYTH), or what?


Or Krosmaster, Reapers, Zombicide 2, etc.....


Pssh. Zombicide was like an entire month ago!

Krosmaster looks really cool. I love the style of the miniatures. At the same time, the game looks like a major money suck. The completionist in me wants ALL the figures, which means pledging $150, which just ain't happening.

Maybe it's just my personal tastes, but this game is more appealing as a value proposition than anything you listed. Zombicide looked cool too, but that one was also a $150 pledge for me to just get both the products being listed. I'm similarly confused as to why Burning Suns (which I can't afford to back, but looks AMAZING for a very dedicated audience) looks like it might not even reach funding. I thought people loved 4X games, and here is one that is actually beautiful to look at.
 
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Jake Rose
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I think the Mantic Deadzone kickstarter will be competing for much the same audience (and their dollars) and will probably deliver more 'toys' for the dollar...
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Byron Campbell
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Dam the Man wrote:
kittenhoarder wrote:
The gameplay video looked solid.


Hexes + bright colors = gulp


People don't like hexes now? I get what people are saying about the yellow and black borders, but I would never have thought twice about it if it weren't for everyone else complaining about it. Seems functional and I can still see the map art just fine.

As for needing another GoW, point taken. For me, the lack of cardplay and the upgradeable abilities of the characters is enough to distinguish it from Gears. I though the hand management aspect of Gears was brilliant and really lends itself to strategic play, but I am looking forward to having a more "streamlined" alternative as well. That is just one person's opinion.
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Byron Campbell
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jakecarol wrote:
I think the Mantic Deadzone kickstarter will be competing for much the same audience (and their dollars) and will probably deliver more 'toys' for the dollar...


I can definitely see that, but they look very different to me. Deadzone looks like more of a true miniatures game, whereas GD is more of a board game with miniatures. Simpler rules, faster play, fewer "toys." The themes are the same, but I don't think it's a complete overlap in terms of audience.
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Jake Rose
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Deadzone is supposed to be on a grid vice hexes, so it will have board game like mechanisms for moving/shooting ranges and probably LOS. As for simpler rules and faster play, that is pure speculation at this point. Dreadball, another Mantic effort plays pretty darned quick and is not very complex...

I am sure there is not 100% overlap, but I strongly suspect there is a LOT of overlap in target audience.
 
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Dan Keller
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kittenhoarder wrote:
jakecarol wrote:
I think the Mantic Deadzone kickstarter will be competing for much the same audience (and their dollars) and will probably deliver more 'toys' for the dollar...


I can definitely see that, but they look very different to me. Deadzone looks like more of a true miniatures game, whereas GD is more of a board game with miniatures. Simpler rules, faster play, fewer "toys." The themes are the same, but I don't think it's a complete overlap in terms of audience.


I agree they're two different styles of games. Unfortunately they're both higher-priced miniatures projects, so they'll necessarily get compared together. I honestly think that the primary factor that is being considered in these miniatures projects is the volume of miniature pieces per dollar (or pound). Game play is a very distant secondary factor. KD:M is testament to this.

I'm backing this one currently at the Elite level, but it is at that price level where I seriously have to consider how much value I think this has should another project come along. Fortunately I'm not really a minis guy so most of those similar projects don't interest me.
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Zheng Xuan
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It cost 50 usd to ship overseas. Coupled with the relatively high buy in price makes people hesitant about this. Day what you want about myth and deadzone but I am sure they will turn out to be around the same weight/size with GD but they only cost 13usd and 5usd to ship overseas respectively.

Another issue is like earth reborn(another great game), this game has extremely busy artwork. It makes the game looks messy to some and hence turn people off.
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1. Europeans are (at least so far) balking at the big shipping price
2. The minis - which look awesome - are at a scale that makes them mostly incompatible with any other minis
3. Visual design that many people find too busy
4. Lots of big KS projects lately, burnout maybe?


The gameplay just doesn't look that much fun to me. The overzealous (over-exuberant?) comparisons to X-COM bewilder me. It looks more like Advanced Castle Ravenloft than anything resembling X-COM.
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Robert Wilson
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The overzealous (over-exuberant?) comparisons to X-COM bewilder me. It looks more like Advanced Castle Ravenloft than anything resembling X-COM.

Perhaps you haven't played the newest X-com: Enemy Unknown title? The combat system, rpg/leveling elements and general vibe are very similar. GD doesn't seem to have any base-building elements, however.

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Ah, ok, I'd forgotten all about the new game. blush Your "squad" is about the same size as GD, too, if I remember, and no more action points.

Thank you, I am bewildered no longer.
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Charlie Theel
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I'm in the target audience (love X-Com and miniature games) but I can only offer why I'm not going rabid over this:

-Game will be cheaper come retail and there are few stretch goals now

-The graphic design of the maps is not horrible but it does not excite me. If the art was closer to the Heroes of Normandie kickstarter it would be more exciting.

-Game looks very busy when it comes to reference cards, skills, player mats, tokens on the board, and it all blends into that busy artwork. This makes me hesitate slightly and has me leaning towards wait and see.

-The miniatures are a bit ugly. Not the sculpts themselves, but the metallic plastic color is odd. It gives off a cheesy sci-fi vibe to me and is distracting.

-The bonus figures are only available at the $120 level. This is a tad annoying.

-There are only 4 maps. This looks seriously limiting and the variety does not look to be too good.

-The campaign system sounds interesting (although no real details that I've seen), but if they really want to hook me have some kind of base building or strategic element like X-Com. Go all the way instead of just lifting the surface detail from X-Com.

-The bonus figures are cheesy in that they rip off existing sci-fi IP. I know Sedition Wars and Zombicide do this and people lap it up, but I don't like it. I suppose it is a decent compromise since they are exclusive and including a normal new alien type or two would be limiting. I still find it aggravating though.

-I dislike some of the knock-off/homage items like the Halo sword and the origami item. I dislike cheese in my games and these items are goofy and take away from the gritty feel of what an X-Com game should be.



As-is, this seems like the go-to boardgame if you want to emulate 1/4th of an X-com battlefield with 1/20th the variety in map layout and 1/10th the visual appeal. Or, at least, that's what it appears it's trying to be but I don't know how well it accomplishes that because I don't know anything about the rules.

Why did I pledge for Myth (since you mentioned this in the OP)?

-Massive value. If I dislike the game I know I can sell it at a profit.

-Great stretch rewards that forced me to pledge. Seriously, buying the game later would be painful knowing I missed the 50 or so extra minis, extra map tiles, tokens, etc.

-Tries to accomplish a niche I have yet been unable to fill. I haven't found a Coop Dungeon Crawler that I like.

-Interesting mechanics I'm excited about. The way the Darkness activates, the deck building for your actions, the spawning of new minions based on spent action points, etc.

-Coherent vision/artwork. There are no odd-ball promos featuring Dragonball-Z characters or Tolkien heroes or whatever other cheese they could throw in. Everything made sense and furthered the game.

Right now, I am interesting in Galaxy Defenders (mostly because of its X-Com like appearance), but I think I would be best served buying it from Miniature Market later on for a fraction of the kickstarter price.

By the way, your knocking other Kickstarters doesn't make me want to back this game. If anything it has the opposite effect.
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Byron Campbell
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Rather than quote large chunks of charlest's reply, I'll just make a general response and hope that the connections are obvious.

First off, in response to your last comment. I don't feel that I was necessarily "knocking" other Kickstarters. Rather, I was giving my genuine opinion of them, just as you have done with this one. I never got drawn into the MYTH psychosis for the reasons I mentioned, and everything I stated about other Kickstarters was my honest reason for not backing them. In contrast, I'm pretty excited about this game. Maybe I am more of the target audience than you are?

Do the game's creators compare it to XCOM, or is that something the fans have come up with on their own? In your response, you compare it unfavorably to XCOM in numerous places, but I don't see it as even attempting to be XCOM. I see it, as the banner ad describes it, as an homage to the sci-fi movies of the '80s and '90s. The cheesy weapons, shout-outs, the brightly colored miniatures, and even the hexes should all be read in this light. (I think even the creators have mentioned that the hex shape evokes sci-fi of a certain era.) It's my belief that the cheese factor is completely intentional, which is something I find refreshing in contrast to e.g. the Deadzone campaign that's been mentioned above.

In any case, the last thing I want to do is to turn people off of the game by coming across as obnoxious or pushy. I have no affiliation except as a backer, but I do want (for purely selfish reasons) the campaign to explode through the roof. It seems like the designers and publishers are definitely paying attention, and hopefully we'll see some nice incentives announced over the next couple of weeks.
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kittenhoarder wrote:
In any case, the last thing I want to do is to turn people off of the game by coming across as obnoxious or pushy.

If there were an award for pushy, your efforts here would make you a shoo-in.
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Byron Campbell
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Sphere wrote:
kittenhoarder wrote:
In any case, the last thing I want to do is to turn people off of the game by coming across as obnoxious or pushy.

If there were an award for pushy, your efforts here would make you a shoo-in.


Well, I apologize. That was not my intention. I'll shut up now. blush
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There's a danger in equating KS popularity with game quality. People rarely pledge for games purely because they look fun. Nowadays most of us are aware that most games on KS will be released at discount at online stores very soon after publication so even if the game is perfect for you there's no compelling reason to pledge when you can just buy the game later and enjoy it.

What makes a KS campaign "rabid" is either a feeling of involvement or a feeling of free stuff!!! Myth had a little bit of the former as they constantly reworked their campaign to meet the needs of potential supporters and also because it very much felt like a community project as the characters started to come to life. Myth had a lot of the latter with excellent exclusive items and just lots of extra stuff in general.

In addition, almost all campaigns hit a long lull in the middle. Galaxy Defenders had a good first week but will probably move very slowly until they start unlocking "exciting" stretch goals. Then it might snowball. Myth probably raised a quarter million the last couple days.

Anyway, the game is on my radar but there's nothing compelling me to pledge yet.
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kittenhoarder wrote:
As of a few minutes ago, there's an open slot at the "rookie agent" early bird pledge level, which gets you he game and stretch rewards for $75. This is, in my opinion, a great value, so why is that slot open now when it wasn't a few days ago?

This game seems to have all the elements of a highly successful KS campaign, but (even though it has exceeded its goal) it has been moving fey slowly since soon after launch. Why? It has miniatures, which everyone seems to love. The gameplay video looked solid. It reminds me a LOT of Gears of War, which isn't a bad thing at all. The stretch rewards are very enticing, yet people seem hesitant to buy into it. I hope this improves as the campaign goes on, because I want my G-DROID, Beast, and VR training room!

I can't help but compare this game to MYTH, which was hugely successful. They are both miniatures based cooperative games. MYTH got you a ton of miniatures, but the actual gameplay looked really bland and unpolished compared with this one. I know people have complained about the amount of plastic versus the price, but you are not paying for a box of toys. My only concern about content is the lack of map tiles...4 seems incredibly low, which is why we need to hit some stretch goals!

Is it just a timing issue (everybody blew their KS budget over the inferior MYTH), or what?


The timing against Myth certainly not helping, especially given the amazing value you got at $100 with Myth compared to Galaxy Defenders. Myths pricing system and extra bundles really took the sails out of this kickstarter.
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Too me it's all about value. As a previous backer I didn't like what I was seeing for stretch goals and responses (or lack thereof) to concerns backers had from Ares. You can get the game cheaper when it comes out and feel like you missed out on zero exclusives. "Oh darn I could of had an extra blue alien?" Right!

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The lack of rules on the KS page and the shipping cost are the main problems

- I live in South America. For me a game like Zombicide ships for U$ 40 usually. GD shipping cos is U$49 !!!

- overseas backers will have to deal with taxes.

(Ares said they will try a solution for the shipping cost next week).

- until now the cost x benefit is not really worth it. I like the overall fell of the game, I enjoy coop board games and I am a fan of XCOM but the game is expensive at U$75. The stretch goals are not compelling.

On the other hand they seem to be aware of that (like this link sugests)

[geekurl=http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/968726/question-about-how-ks-exclusive-items-are-handled][/geekurl]


I just don't know what are they waiting for!
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Dan Keller
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kittenhoarder wrote:
Sphere wrote:
kittenhoarder wrote:
In any case, the last thing I want to do is to turn people off of the game by coming across as obnoxious or pushy.

If there were an award for pushy, your efforts here would make you a shoo-in.


Well, I apologize. That was not my intention. I'll shut up now. blush


For what it's worth, I'm not sure why pepole are getting their panties in a twist about your comments. I think this has been a perfectly civil and fair discussion. Keep on posting.
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Charlie Theel
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kittenhoarder wrote:
Rather than quote large chunks of charlest's reply, I'll just make a general response and hope that the connections are obvious.

First off, in response to your last comment. I don't feel that I was necessarily "knocking" other Kickstarters. Rather, I was giving my genuine opinion of them, just as you have done with this one. I never got drawn into the MYTH psychosis for the reasons I mentioned, and everything I stated about other Kickstarters was my honest reason for not backing them. In contrast, I'm pretty excited about this game. Maybe I am more of the target audience than you are?

Do the game's creators compare it to XCOM, or is that something the fans have come up with on their own? In your response, you compare it unfavorably to XCOM in numerous places, but I don't see it as even attempting to be XCOM. I see it, as the banner ad describes it, as an homage to the sci-fi movies of the '80s and '90s. The cheesy weapons, shout-outs, the brightly colored miniatures, and even the hexes should all be read in this light. (I think even the creators have mentioned that the hex shape evokes sci-fi of a certain era.) It's my belief that the cheese factor is completely intentional, which is something I find refreshing in contrast to e.g. the Deadzone campaign that's been mentioned above.

In any case, the last thing I want to do is to turn people off of the game by coming across as obnoxious or pushy. I have no affiliation except as a backer, but I do want (for purely selfish reasons) the campaign to explode through the roof. It seems like the designers and publishers are definitely paying attention, and hopefully we'll see some nice incentives announced over the next couple of weeks.


I didn't realize it was supposed to be cheesy (as opposed to the promos and only a couple elements being as such). I guess then I'm not the target audience as that doesn't appeal to me.

The X-Com comparisons come about because of the look of the maps (especially alien ship interiors), the experience/campaign system, the Xenos and Aracnos, and skill system. I'm sure X-Com was a major influence for these guys as it's all over the game.

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