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Subject: Drawing cards and shuffling plus some other clarifications rss

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Oliver
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I have a few questions regarding game play.

If a player's draw deck runs out and he needs/wants to draw a card(s), what happens? Nothing or does he get to shuffle his discard pile into the deck? In other words, does the draw deck only replenish during the Resert phase or the Rephresh action?

During the Reset phase the leftover cards of the Gang members and Black market auction cards get discarded and a new set of four cards gets drawn. What happens to the discarded cards? Do they stay in a discard pile until the whole deck is empty or do they get right away added to the bottom of the respective draw deck?

Similarity what happens to the YCU cards after been resolved? Are they added to the bottom of the draw deck, kept in a discard pile until a new draw deck is needed, or right away shuffled into the existing draw deck?

Red's mysterious benefactor card. If a color is not in play, do you simply get 5 ARCs for removing the card (no action or battle required) or can you get the 5 ARCs after winning a PvP battle against any player (color independent). Reading simply what is written on the card the first explanation seems correct, however in the spirit of the game and the red fraction I'm tempted to interpret it the second way. Any thoughts on this?

Lastly, mainly a confirmation. Big development tiles do need at least one figure of the the same color on both spots in order to produce/sell goods on the development or simply use the development. Am I correct with that?

Thank you for clarifying these questions for me. I did spend some time to check if any of these gave already been covert, however did not find them (if I missed them I apologize for double posting). Also, is there a FAQ for the game yet?

Edit: two more questions.

1) In battle you can play as many cards as you have influence. Ok. However does it actually matter how many units fight in the given battle. I.e. you have influence of 5 but only 4 battle eligible units, in that case you can play 5 cards and roll 4 dice. Now, How many of the cards played (assuming all are units) count towards the battle total?

2) I assume if you have all 16 gang members, you cannot recruit anymore until one of your gang members dies?
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Brian Bishop
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Hey good questions Oliver..!
Instead of quoting all your questions and then giving answers, I'll try to read what you wrote, then produce the answers in the same order, know what I mean..?
First up, if your draw deck is depleted, you're screwed my friend. There's no "draw one from a magical bag in your pocket"...
If you're in a battle and your draw pile is gone, you're on your own. If you're out of cards in any other situation, same thing, hold your breath.
The idea is that you need to manage your cards like, all the time. If you have a big battle coming up and you need all your soldiers to do their parts, well save some cards for the next fight, or the next.
If you're the Blue team and you want to spend a bunch of Worker's making your developments cheap but you notice Mr Red Team creeping up on you, save some of those Workers (because a strength of "one" in a battle is better than a "none")...
So yes, your draw deck is only "replenished" during a Refresh action, or the Reset phase.
Second, you should probably set the "discards" from the Yugai's, the Black Markets and the gangers, in new piles of their own. This way, you can sorta gauge if there's only one Trade Agreement "left" whereas if you just constantly shuffled them and plopped them underneath the draw piles, you'd never know when the piles would be "reset" (and they wouldn't really be shuffled very well eh...)
Then, make sure you "announce" it to your fellow players when you're "restocking" the decks so it's fair for all huh.
On to Red's Mysterious Benefactors. Yes, you have to have no player of the particular color in play, to collect the five ARCs and permanently remove the card from the game (I throw 'em near the graveyard where deceased gangers go...)
No, you cannot claim this benefit when defeating another player in a battle. The reward for that is the five Renown (which you want more than the money since buying Renown at the Black Market costs three ARCs per one Renown; five Renown would cost fifteen ARCs so do you want something worth five ARCs or fifteen..?)
If you have the Benefactor in your hand at the end of the battle where you defeat that particular color player, lay it down and demand your Renown (call it a "post action") and yes, it's a "free" card (it takes no action to use in this way).
If you have a Benefactor in your hand and you're not fighting anyone in the near future, lay it down for either one ARCs or the five permanent (also taking no action, this card is "free" to use anytime)...
Okay, next is the big development tiles and yes, you need to have at least one figure in each "square" to claim control of said "building".
If you only have one figure present, you do not "control" the tile, you can't Produce Develop, nor Sell any products from this tile, nor collect any Renown for this building so yes, keep your buildings under your control at all costs.
Moving on, in a battle, let's say your Influence is a big fat six. The number of dice you roll for the battle has nothing to do with your Influence. This number comes from the amount of figures involved in the battle, plus any figures in adjacent squares (plus any Advanced Weapons).
The six in your Influence determines the maximum number of cards you can lay.
Now, as before with the card management theory, if you need to save some cards for later, don't spend them all now. If you can throw six into the fight, maybe only toss three saving some for the next phase of the battle.
If you're really depleted, send only one or two cards into this battle, it's up to you, you know.
On the other side of the fence, if you're the Yellow gang and you've got gangers coming out of your ears, send all six cards in and watch your opponent cringe.
Another option for you to consider, is that when it's time to "assign" combatants in a battle, if you don't have any cards in your hand that you want to play, you can draw "blindly" from the top of your deck and "hope for the best".
You might draw a crappy Worker or a Windfall card (which is completely ignored in a battle) but hey, it's better than a big fat zero now isn't it..?
Now right before you roll the amount of dice you've determined you'll use, total up all the strength numbers on all the cards you've assigned to this battle.
Even a Worker boy will add his "one" while, like I said, any ability cards or Thieves Tools (etc) are worthless, toss 'em in your discard pile.
Combat is a very tricky thing to master in this game. Card management is also extremely important.
And finally, your last question, if you have all sixteen figures "in play", you cannot recruit any more, your gang house is full.
Try to save a figure or two "just in case" somebody good comes up and you want to recruit 'em. Also, with only fifteen figures claimed, you can still bid up the prices of other gang members, driving your opponent's prices higher while not actually recruiting anyone new.

This is a complex game Oliver but after you've played it, and watched your opponent play, a few times, it comes pretty naturally.
Let us know if you still have questions and and always, fight the Yugai people..!
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Oliver
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Brian,

Thanx a lot for your detailed and extensive reply. It clarified pretty much everything. I definitely more excited to play my next game now.

One last point though regarding cards and combat: I understand the mechanism of how cards are used in combat and appreciated the importance of card management better. Still there is something nagging me about potentially using more cards than having actually figures involved in the fight. I guess I always thought about the characters on the cards used to be represented by proxy in the figures on the board.

Have a good week-end

Oliver
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Patricia Piolon
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Can I just ask, as we ran into the figure limit yesterday...

Initially we thought it was like you said, that 16 figures means you cannot recruit any more, but we happened to also be playing with the slave trader building, which says to *remove a gang member card*. Nothing about a figure. So we er, figured, that to actually be successful as a slave trader, you'd want to recruit extra guys and sell them as slaves, outside of the whole figure count. I gather this is not correct, and you should take a figure from the board (or from your recruitment pool) when you sell a gang member as a slave?
 
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Brian Bishop
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Hi again Oliver..!
Yes, this was a hard concept at first to me too. I'm used to games like Heroscape and Dungeon Run where every figure "represents" a specific person.
But it was my ten year old son who put it to me this way. He said...
Daddy, don't think of 'em (the figures) as an actual unit. Think of them as a "force" from your gang.
Now we all know (if you have any experience with real gangs) that they don't just "walk around" in solo mode all day. They hang with their peoples or they roll "three deep".
So just because you have one figure "here" doesn't mean it's not composed of one spiked mohawk dude, one giant nose pierced dude, two skateboard punks and four make-up coated beaches with somebody's little brother following along in the background.
So when it comes time for battle, when the crap hits the fan, well some of your homies might stick around for the shooting while some turn and run for cover. Some might run to fetch more reinforcements while others might drop a smoke bomb and hide.
And this concept (which is freakin' brilliant by the way) allows for all of those scenarios, including the one where you don't assign any cards and all of your freaks are playin' defense.
Now, after the first phase of battle, one of your people might die. So eliminate a figure but understand that it's your pick, who falls into the graveyard.
So in a sense, you control the fate of each of your gangers and it's up to you to decide what's "best" for your gang.

Hi Patricia, some thoughts have been typed recently on the Slave Trader and if you need the link, here it is...

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/966918/slave-trader-question

The idea with this one is, no gang wants to know that their leader is running a Slave Trader. This is like a dirty little secret kept by a dirty few at the top of your "organization".
Occasionally, some people just come up "missing" and everybody assumes they were caught by the Yugai or were "corrupted" by Ret Onshadow's pillow talk...
So when you're "selling" a card from your deck (and removing a figure), it's a very hush-hush operation.
You might order your boys to bust open a ganger's crib in the middle of the afternoon (when all good gangers are sleeping) and drag him off to the Slavers.
Or you might have a fighting contest where the loser is "sold".
Or, if you're really cruel, you're previously mentioned group of thugs will walk right up to the Slavers, make some small talk...
Then your nose pierced dude and the skateboard brothers will turn on the spiked mohawk guy and "surprise", he wakes up in a cage.
When the make-up covered beaches want some smokes and the thugs refuse, maybe they'll sell one of them, just to "set an example" (because no one can have their beaches "demanding" things eh)...

The point is, the game wasn't designed to allow you to make six ARCs (or twelve) every two actions (assuming your Trader is up and controlled, one to recruit and one to Sell) without a "negative".
The downside is that you lose that "force" (specifically, the figure).
Now if you're the Yellow team and recruiting comes easy, then this tactic is a lot more "doable".
If you're Red and you have to fight for every member of your party, this tactic becomes almost "not worth it".

So hey, hope this helps a bit. I want to apologize if I offended anyone with my rash words. I know gangs in our world can be a real problem and it's nothing to laugh at.
But I also know that humor is the only thing keeping us from turning into giant metal Yugai huh.
Hope you're all good out there and fight the Yugai people..!
 
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Bryan Stout
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B376Bishop wrote:
Second, you should probably set the "discards" from the Yugai's, the Black Markets and the gangers, in new piles of their own.

This is exactly what is shown in the game setup on p. 9 of the rule book!


As an aside, Brian, I would find your posts -- which while informative tend to be rather wordy -- much easier to read if you divided them into paragraphs and eliminated all the newlines after each sentence, something like this:


B376Bishop wrote:
Hey good questions Oliver..!

Instead of quoting all your questions and then giving answers, I'll try to read what you wrote, then produce the answers in the same order, know what I mean..?

First up, if your draw deck is depleted, you're screwed my friend. There's no "draw one from a magical bag in your pocket"... If you're in a battle and your draw pile is gone, you're on your own. If you're out of cards in any other situation, same thing, hold your breath. The idea is that you need to manage your cards like, all the time. If you have a big battle coming up and you need all your soldiers to do their parts, well save some cards for the next fight, or the next. If you're the Blue team and you want to spend a bunch of Worker's making your developments cheap but you notice Mr Red Team creeping up on you, save some of those Workers (because a strength of "one" in a battle is better than a "none")... So yes, your draw deck is only "replenished" during a Refresh action, or the Reset phase.

Second, you should probably set the "discards" from the Yugai's, the Black Markets and the gangers, in new piles of their own. This way, you can sorta gauge if there's only one Trade Agreement "left" whereas if you just constantly shuffled them and plopped them underneath the draw piles, you'd never know when the piles would be "reset" (and they wouldn't really be shuffled very well eh...) Then, make sure you "announce" it to your fellow players when you're "restocking" the decks so it's fair for all huh.

On to Red's Mysterious Benefactors. Yes, you have to have no player of the particular color in play, to collect the five ARCs and permanently remove the card from the game (I throw 'em near the graveyard where deceased gangers go...) No, you cannot claim this benefit when defeating another player in a battle. The reward for that is the five Renown (which you want more than the money since buying Renown at the Black Market costs three ARCs per one Renown; five Renown would cost fifteen ARCs so do you want something worth five ARCs or fifteen..?) If you have the Benefactor in your hand at the end of the battle where you defeat that particular color player, lay it down and demand your Renown (call it a "post action") and yes, it's a "free" card (it takes no action to use in this way). If you have a Benefactor in your hand and you're not fighting anyone in the near future, lay it down for either one ARCs or the five permanent (also taking no action, this card is "free" to use anytime)...

Okay, next is the big development tiles and yes, you need to have at least one figure in each "square" to claim control of said "building". If you only have one figure present, you do not "control" the tile, you can't Produce Develop, nor Sell any products from this tile, nor collect any Renown for this building so yes, keep your buildings under your control at all costs.

Moving on, in a battle, let's say your Influence is a big fat six. The number of dice you roll for the battle has nothing to do with your Influence. This number comes from the amount of figures involved in the battle, plus any figures in adjacent squares (plus any Advanced Weapons). The six in your Influence determines the maximum number of cards you can lay. Now, as before with the card management theory, if you need to save some cards for later, don't spend them all now. If you can throw six into the fight, maybe only toss three saving some for the next phase of the battle. If you're really depleted, send only one or two cards into this battle, it's up to you, you know. On the other side of the fence, if you're the Yellow gang and you've got gangers coming out of your ears, send all six cards in and watch your opponent cringe.

Another option for you to consider, is that when it's time to "assign" combatants in a battle, if you don't have any cards in your hand that you want to play, you can draw "blindly" from the top of your deck and "hope for the best". You might draw a crappy Worker or a Windfall card (which is completely ignored in a battle) but hey, it's better than a big fat zero now isn't it..? Now right before you roll the amount of dice you've determined you'll use, total up all the strength numbers on all the cards you've assigned to this battle. Even a Worker boy will add his "one" while, like I said, any ability cards or Thieves Tools (etc) are worthless, toss 'em in your discard pile. Combat is a very tricky thing to master in this game. Card management is also extremely important.

And finally, your last question, if you have all sixteen figures "in play", you cannot recruit any more, your gang house is full. Try to save a figure or two "just in case" somebody good comes up and you want to recruit 'em. Also, with only fifteen figures claimed, you can still bid up the prices of other gang members, driving your opponent's prices higher while not actually recruiting anyone new.

This is a complex game Oliver but after you've played it, and watched your opponent play, a few times, it comes pretty naturally. Let us know if you still have questions and and always, fight the Yugai people..!
 
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Brian Bishop
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Yeah, I've been meaning to say hey sorry to everybody so here's as good a spot as any.
I try to take the "wordy" out of what I type and this is what's left.
I'm not very good at posting on web sites, this is the first time I've ever really "tried" and it's thanks to this game...
I don't know how to make it look "better", I'd like a bigger font and all kinds of bells and whistles but I just haven't gotten that far yet.
I type on a Wordpad because it's lightweight, I can copy and paste and bam, there it goes. As you can see, I haven't even figured out how to put my logo picture thing in my posts...
I first posted some actual pictures (of this game) over at the Plaid Hat site and was proud of myself for that accomplishment (but again, I can't get my logo over there either...)

If you know anybody that would like to do some editing or "dress up" work, I'm definitely in need although the pay is nonexistent.
For everybody who has endured my gigantic paragraphs and screamed why can't this guy tab once in awhile, it's because the web site "condenses" it somehow (I had a heck of a time making spaces appear when I was noting numbers in a "column").
What I do with stuff is copy and paste the text, onto my good ole Wordpad and change the size and font as needed so yeah, that's my best suggestion for readin'...
For those of you who like my wordiness, I started writing some fiction, about this game, over, oh where was it...

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/968201/discard-piles-for-gan...

Thanks for enduring with me Bryan and fight the Yugai people..!
 
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Noble Knave
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When you finish a sentence, hit the space bar twice (or once even) rather than the Enter key. Don't worry about formatting using the bells and whistles so much, just don't put in new lines (via the enter key) except for when you reach the end of a paragraph, and then use it twice.

I agree with Brian that your posts are hard on the eyes, but I'd like to be able to read what you say more easily
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