Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
82 Posts
1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 

Zombicide» Forums » General

Subject: Eva/Marvin Debacle Poll rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Fantom Core
United States
California
flag msg tools
mb
Poll
20. April 2012
Aside from El Cholo, Eva and Marvin were major selling points for CMON/GG during their 1st KS campaign.
Agree
Disagree
21. April-May 2012
CMON/GG were dilegent about providing updated WIP sculpt pics of Marvin and Eva while the Kickstarter campaign was ongoing to increase the interest/pledge amounts. They showed the unfinished sculpt version as well as the fully sculpted version for both.
Agree
Disagree
22. May 6 2012
CMON/GG's Zombicide KS campaign was a huge success. With the gimmick of using the likeness of several movie and tv copyrighted characters.
Agree
Disagree
23. What was the likelihood that CMON/GG had paid license fees for any of the characters they made minis of?
All
Some
None
24. May 7-17, 2012
After the 1st KS campaign was over GG posted an altered Marvin on their website with his dashcard and profile image within his Designer's Notes. For some reasons, they changed Marvin from holding a pistol to an axe. Backers disapproved of the change and voiced it on the CMON's KS comment pages/GG's Facebook page. Eva was also posted on the GG website with her Designer's Notes which included a fully-colored profile image of her having a grey/yellow color-scheme to her outfit. It seemed CMON/GG tried to pre-emptively avoid any copyrighted likeness issue that could of arose for Marvin by simply changing his weapon and for Eva by simply changing her color-scheme. Unfortunately this proved to not be enough of a change.
Agree
Disagree
25. May 18th-ish, 2012
It's been established that Miramax Films "requested" that CMON/GG change the likeness of Eva and Marvin because it infringes on their copyrighted protected Pulp Fiction and Kill Bill movie characters. What do you think was Miramax Films "requested" method?
A - [A Cease and Desist (C&D) notice - Which is merely a letter to "stop/change this or else". You don't even need a lawyer to send one.]
B - [A Gag Order - Which is the power to cause someone or a company to "be quiet". Which isn't a easy legal power to disperse.]
26. May 19, 2012
It has been established that CMON/GG complied with Miramax's request. All images of Eva and Marvin were removed from CMON's Kickstarter page, GG's website and their respective Facebook pages. All signs of their likeness erased with the exception that their Designer's Notes remained on GG's website. From this moment, info on Eva/Marvin's status and why their images were removed, ceased. This is when backer speculation began.
Agree
Disagree
27. After May 19th, 2012
It's speculated that after CMON/GG immediately complied with Miramax, that they somehow tried to communicate further with them to buy a license off them to keep Eva/Marvin unchanged. Do you think it went one of these ways?
A) CMON/GG never tried to buy a license because they are trying to make money not spend it?
B) Miramax had no desire to sell a license, even though it would mean money for them?
C) CMON/GG compiled with Miramax's request to change the likeness of Eva and Marvin and that was the end of it.
28. After May 19th, 2012
With the finished versions of Eva's and Marvin's WIP sculpts already posted, it was safe to say CMON/GG had them finished enough to move on to the other characters to sculpt, since Eva and Marvin were the 4th and 5th characters introduced they would get done sooner rather than later. It is likely that the Eva and Marvin sculpts were immediately altered not long after they received Miramax's request and had their sculpts changed this early on after the campaign had just finished.
Agree
Disagree
29. Other promo survivors had their Designer's Notes posted on GG's website, which included, Ivy, Claudia, Eagle Chaz, and Troy. Yet Eva and Marvin's Designer Notes images remained blacked-out. CMON/GG never addressed people asking about why Eva and Marvin's images remained blacked-out.
Agree
Disagree
30. ~Serveral months pass by with no new information on Eva/Marvin~
Agree
Disagree
31. March 2013-April 2013
The 2nd Zombicide Kickstarter campaign begins and ends with a huge success, with many new backers wishing they had gotten in on the 1st campaign so they could of gotten the exclusive promos like Eva and Marvin.
Agree
Disagree
32. April 20-28, 2013
Eva and Marvin show up on ebay for the first time with redesigns, catching backers off guard since CMON/GG have remained silent about them all this time.
Agree
Disagree
33. April 29, 2013 (1 Year later after Eva's and Marvin's original introduction)
CMON gives an update on their KS page about the 2nd wave shipments, and a single sentence stating they had to modify Eva and Marvin at Miramax's request. it was the first time they ever mentioned Miramax, and it has been about 11 months since CMON/GG last spoke of Eva and Marvin. CMON was now willing to offer refunds for them.
Agree
Disagree
34. April 29, 2013
CMON stated they were willing to offer refunds for Eva and Marvin but also stated, they would be high demand items after the results of their Season 2 campaign. Implying those that are upset with the change should consider ebay as a way to make more money rather than get their $10-$20 back from them. Do you think CMON's offer to refund is hollow now, rather than if it was made available to backers before the Season 2 campaign?
A - There refund offer is a mandatory business offer that has to happen for legal reasons for any of there Zombicide products.
B - It was better for them not to offer the refund then, rather than now, because it would of put doubt into current and future backers whether they should buy into their second Zombicide Kickstarter campaign.
C - They already had backer's money to produce Eva/Marvin, if they offer refunds early they might lose a good amount of money to produce them, so they waited until after they are made, then offer refunds later. Figuring they probably would get less backers actually going through with the refund process now then before.
35. April 29, 2013
CMON stated they "can't" discuss the matter with Miramax. To what extent do you think that means?
A) They received a gag order and were legally bound to not speak for a whole year.
B) Miramax only sent a C&D notice and that was it and the only gag order enforced was by CMON/GG on themselves as company policy, since they figured it really wouldn't have benefited them in the long run. So it was best to keep backers in the dark.
      56 answers
Poll created by fantomcore
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Valadez
United States
Villa Park
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
"RAWR!" means "I love you" in kaiju.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This seems less like a poll and more like a pop quiz.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fantom Core
United States
California
flag msg tools
mb
It's also a timeline of events.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aaron Morgan
United States
Sacramento
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Too much asking of folks to agree or disagree on statements that can't be proven as to whether they are fact or speculation.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jake Rose
United States
Aiken
South Carolina
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
25 and 35 are silly. No reason Miramax could not have sent both or even have taken other steps.

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Taylor
United States
Lake Forest
California
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What happened to the first 19 questions?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cory J
Canada
Calgary
Alberta
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ok, first off, why are you stating the questions at #20? Is that an error or do you have another poll in a different thread?

Second, ALL of these questions are horribly loaded and for many of them I feel the truth could easily be in the middle of a simple true or false statement.

For instance:

20. Sure Eva and Marvin were major selling points. So were EVERY OTHER FIGURE they produced for the KS, as well as the game itself.

23. I doubt they paid licensing fees to anyone, but I have no idea what the business workings of the company is, and it seems wrong-headed to try and second guess GG or CMON on this point as there is no way we would ever find out.

32. If you were diligent and paid attention the figures for both Marvin and Eva could be seen in several pictures throughout GG's facebook page. So many of us have known since December (I think) that these redesigns had happened. And there was speculation that a C&D was the likely cause of the pics of these figures being taken down in the days after they were taken down. So while this may have surprised some people, many knew of this for quite a long time. Whether we knew of Miramax's involvement or whether we thought it was Tarantino, well, probably doesn't matter.

Anyway, I could argue the same for most of your questions but really I just want to know what the point of this thread is? Your points have been well established in the other thread on this, so what's up with the loaded questions here? To make GG/CMON look bad?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Hill
United Kingdom
Cambridge
Cambridgeshire
flag msg tools
designer
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
What exactly do you hope to achieve with this, Fantom?
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Barry Hood
United Kingdom
Coventry
flag msg tools
badge
Microbadges by request, geekmail me for details!
Avatar
mb
anarchy wrote:
What happened to the first 19 questions?


We're not allowed to talk about them. Gagging order.
12 
 Thumb up
0.04
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Derbyshire
United Kingdom
Norton Mandeville
Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
delinear wrote:
anarchy wrote:
What happened to the first 19 questions?


We're not allowed to talk about them. Gagging order.


Was it Ryan Giggs's fault?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Also known as
Canada
Edmonton
Alberta
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Just send me your current Eva and Marvin figures, Fantom. It will ease your frustration to be rid of them...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thomas
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
"Music That Glows In The Dark"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Poll
This thread is a waste of time
yes
no
I don't care
      112 answers
Poll created by LunarSoundDesign
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fantom Core
United States
California
flag msg tools
mb
Weapon Gamma wrote:
Just send me your current Eva and Marvin figures, Fantom. It will ease your frustration to be rid of them...


I'm keeping them for completeness.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Barry Hood
United Kingdom
Coventry
flag msg tools
badge
Microbadges by request, geekmail me for details!
Avatar
mb
Judging by this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Zombicide-KS-mini-EVA-THE-ARTIST-A...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Zombicide-KS-mini-MARVIN-THE-BODYG...

Currently £33 for Eva and £132 for Marvin, it looks like people are less bothered by the Marvin changes, but demand for both is still insanely high. I'm not sure what restitution you want from GG/CMoN. They can't give you the sculpts you want, that's obvious, and I'd hope they will learn from this and in future be more transparent about any future changes, but that won't change the past. They could refund you the full amount you backed at, but you would get a far better return selling the same stuff for an 800% mark-up online if that mattered, so I don't know what that leaves.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fantom Core
United States
California
flag msg tools
mb
delinear wrote:
Judging by this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Zombicide-KS-mini-EVA-THE-ARTIST-A...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Zombicide-KS-mini-MARVIN-THE-BODYG...

Currently £33 for Eva and £132 for Marvin, it looks like people are less bothered by the Marvin changes, but demand for both is still insanely high. I'm not sure what restitution you want from GG/CMoN. They can't give you the sculpts you want, that's obvious, and I'd hope they will learn from this and in future be more transparent about any future changes, but that won't change the past. They could refund you the full amount you backed at, but you would get a far better return selling the same stuff for an 800% mark-up online if that mattered, so I don't know what that leaves.


Notice the Eva is less than the Marvin by alot. More changes made, less collectible it seems. But yeah I want CMON/GG to be more transparent about future changes. So speaking out about it is the best way to change their ways. I would be angry if CMON didn't give backers the option for a full refund. But it's good that they do provide that . I just don't like to be stone-walled for a year and have to find out on ebay first.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeffrey Nolin
Japan
Nakamachi, Hiroshima
Hiroshima-ken
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Point 34: "would of" instead of 'would've' is a common mistake that native speakers make because they think with their 'childhood' ears, while non-native speakers think more with their eyes, because they are learning the language from textbooks and don't have those earlier childhood hearing mis-associations. (Non-native students also do a better job of not confusing 'there, their, they're' and 'your, you're'.) As irksome as what the OP is trying to criticize. Why can't people just get things right the first time, eh? Or we could just let it slide.
4 
 Thumb up
1.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Barry Hood
United Kingdom
Coventry
flag msg tools
badge
Microbadges by request, geekmail me for details!
Avatar
mb
fantomcore wrote:
delinear wrote:
Judging by this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Zombicide-KS-mini-EVA-THE-ARTIST-A...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Zombicide-KS-mini-MARVIN-THE-BODYG...

Currently £33 for Eva and £132 for Marvin, it looks like people are less bothered by the Marvin changes, but demand for both is still insanely high. I'm not sure what restitution you want from GG/CMoN. They can't give you the sculpts you want, that's obvious, and I'd hope they will learn from this and in future be more transparent about any future changes, but that won't change the past. They could refund you the full amount you backed at, but you would get a far better return selling the same stuff for an 800% mark-up online if that mattered, so I don't know what that leaves.


Notice the Eva is less than the Marvin by alot. More changes made, less collectible it seems. But yeah I want CMON/GG to be more transparent about future changes. So speaking out about it is the best way to change their ways. I would be angry if CMON didn't give backers the option for a full refund. But it's good that they do provide that . I just don't like to be stone-walled for a year and have to find out on ebay first.


I don't think we can read too much into the price difference on the basis of one auction. Especially when the remodelled Marvin is selling for more than Ivy and Claudia from the same seller. It's possibly just an anomaly. The weird thing to me is that Marvin is the bigger change in my eyes. I hate Eva's beret but it would be a five minute task to remove it and remodel the hair, while removing a beard without damaging the face is much tougher.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
StevenE Smooth Sailing...
United States
Torrance
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I got 15 out of 16 right... How many entries do I get?

[edit]
When does the contest end?
11 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
StevenE Smooth Sailing...
United States
Torrance
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What???? This wasn't a contest?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thomas
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
"Music That Glows In The Dark"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
StevenE wrote:
What???? This wasn't a contest?


Sarcasm ninja
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Barry Hood
United Kingdom
Coventry
flag msg tools
badge
Microbadges by request, geekmail me for details!
Avatar
mb
You should have realized when he didn't try to sign you up to his newsletter for five extra entries.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul W
Canada
Lethbridge
Alberta
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Didn't bother answering the poll; the bias is way too heavy. For example, one doesn't need a gag order to keep quiet about a legal matter. All one needs is a very common piece of advice from legal counsel, to say as little as possible about legal matters, preferably nothing.

Ever watch a new story about some legal matter? Ever notice how, with the occasional exception of one of the lawyers involved (or a foolish client), all anyone will say is "We cannot comment on an ongoing legal matter." Even after it's resolved, they'll read off a minimal prepared statement.

Yeah, it's like that.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
C M
msg tools
mbmb
I don't think a gag order exists, a nondisclosure agreement is much more likely source of the silence. Same effect but very different things.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fantom Core
United States
California
flag msg tools
mb
cormor321 wrote:
I don't think a gag order exists, a nondisclosure agreement is much more likely source of the silence. Same effect but very different things.


The majority of results from the poll think it's more likely Miramax just sent a C&D to CMON and that it was CMON's own choosing to stay quiet or gagged.

A NDA suggest that CMON/GG and Miramax were trying to work with each other for mutual gain. But since it seems less likely that CMON/GG commonly pay for licenses for Zombicide, it's doubtful they tried negotiating with Miramax. Unless CMOM paid Miramax some I'm sorry money, I don't think a NDA manifested.

If a NDA did happen it was between CMON and GG.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cory J
Canada
Calgary
Alberta
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
delinear wrote:
The weird thing to me is that Marvin is the bigger change in my eyes. I hate Eva's beret but it would be a five minute task to remove it and remodel the hair, while removing a beard without damaging the face is much tougher.


Really? I never saw that at all. All they did to Marvin was remove his tie and turn his goatee into a full beard. For Eva they added the beret, took away the katana, changed the fun, took out the strap over her shirt, and added a jacket where before there was just a shirt... It looks completely different to me. Maybe that's just because of all the sculpting photos we have I always thought hers was the best.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.