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Subject: Conveyor Rotation - Am I confused or is Avalon Hill? rss

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Mike P
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Hi everyone.

I'm thinking about getting RoboRally, so I'm reading the rulebook online and some of the threads here. I thought I had conveyor belts figured out, but now I'm confused again. It appears that Avalon Hill's demo does not follow the rules correctly.

When you go to the demo, use the password "steelcutter" to skip to level 6, "Bad Company"

Put 'Move 2', 'Rotate Right' and 'Back Up' into your first 3 registers. It doesn't matter what you put into the other 2. Does the demo handle this correctly?
 
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L. Scott Johnson
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If you say what you think the demo is doing wrong, I could probably say whether that's the case or not (since I'm not going to the demo myself, lazy bastard that I am).

Anyway, contrary to my lazy nature, an explanation of conveyor belts follows:

When executing a movement card, conveyor belts are treated as open floor. That is, if you walk over a conveyor, even one with a curvy arrow, you walk straight and do not change your facing.

Then, during the "board elements" phase (when you handle things like conveyors, gears, and pushers), the conveyors are handled -- you move one square in the direction indicated by the arrow, and if the arrow is curved, you execute a 90 degree turn in that direction when the conveyor moves you.

If you're on a fast conveyor, you do the above twice (technically, you do the above once for just fast conveyors and then, after the fast conveyor phase, you do it again for "all conveyors" -- both fast and normal -- so that the fast ones effectively get handled twice. But if a slow conveyor dumps you off on a fast one, you'll already have passed the fast conveyor move phase, so you won't be moved a second square).
 
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Mike P
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Well, in writing, what you say sounds like my understanding of the rule. The demo ( http://www.wizards.com/avalonhill/robo_demo/robodemo.asp ) seems to reverse the rule. If you move onto a turning conveyor with an action card, it turns you, and if you are moved on by another conveyor, you are not. I just wanted to test out my understanding to se it in practice, and the demo confused me more.
 
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Andy W
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When I first tried what you suggested on the demo, I thought that it was incorrect, but the more I read up on the rules again, I think the demo may have it right. I'm not happy with this revelation as that means we've been playing it wrong for years.

Thinking of it physically, I suppose it can be taken to say it only matters what the arrow you're moving off of says when it comes to turning. So in essence on a left to right conveyer you would stop at the very beginning of the next piece of conveyer belt while the actual turn is in the middle of the belt and won't be felt unless it moves you on a subsequent round.

I'd be happy to hear other interpretations as I would prefer to hear we've been playing it right and the demo is wrong.

I'm fairly sure Nigel's comment is incorrect according to the rules (but again I could be convinced otherwise). I think if you move from a normal speed conveyer onto a fast conveyer you are not moved by the high speed conveyer again since the high speed conveyers have already moved and would "shut off" after the slower conveyers move.
 
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Mark McEvoy
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harryhavana wrote:
Quote:
But if a slow conveyor dumps you off on a fast one, you'll already have passed the fast conveyor move phase, so you won't be moved a second square).


Id agree with you up to this point(above)

if a slow conveyer belt dumps you on a fast conveyer belt during the normal belt phase. - Then you would move again during the fast conveyer phase.

The way we see the rules and always have done is that :

All Conveyer belts move during the first conveyer phase.
Then Only the fast conveyer belts move during the second conveyer belt phase.

Makes perfect sense to me.



Only that's not the way it works (unless the new AH edition works completely differently from original WotC edition). The rules and factory floor guides clearly state that express belts move one space, then all belts (including expresses) move one space. This isn't an especially common scenario as there's not a single board in the game that dumps a regular conveyor onto an express conveyor, though this can happen where two boards touch.



As for the thread originator: you are correct - this tutorial app does not handle conveyor turns correctly. It should trigger the turn when the robot enters the turning conveyor square by way of board movement... it's instead triggering the turn as the robot exits the turning conveyor square by way of board movement.
 
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Mike P
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thatmarkguy wrote:
As for the thread originator: you are correct - this tutorial app does not handle conveyor turns correctly. It should trigger the turn when the robot enters the turning conveyor square by way of board movement... it's instead triggering the turn as the robot exits the turning conveyor square by way of board movement.


Thanks. I'm glad I was thinking correctly. It's too bad the official demo has it wrong, though.
 
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Mark McEvoy
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If your robot touched that square on that puzzle, you were *way* off-course anyways.
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Steven Packard
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Regarding the timing of express (fast) and normal speed conveyors only, both the original rules and the AH rules are clear (and consistent with each other):

FIRST the express conveyors move one square. Then ALL conveyors (fast and slow) move one square.
 
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Mike P
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thatmarkguy wrote:
If your robot touched that square on that puzzle, you were *way* off-course anyways.


Um...uhh...I was only over there doing research. Yeah, that's right. Research.
 
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L. Scott Johnson
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harryhavana wrote:
I know what is really confusing with conveyer belts and that is robots pushing eachother on them. In those 'do they or don't they situations'.


When handling robot movement (including pushing other robots), the conveyors are treated like open floor -- you push (or don't push) other robots exactly as if you were on open floor -- and neither the pusher nor the pushee change facing based on the arrows on any conveyors they cross or are pushed across in the robots move phase.
 
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The demo is definitly wrong as you describe it, which is aknowledged by AH, but not (yet) corrected.

For the correct ruling of conveyers i did a
cut and paste from the online rule book :
http://www.wizards.com/avalonhill/rules/roborally.pdf

page 7 bottom part :
Board elements move in the following order :
1. Express conveyer belts move one space in the direction of the arrows.
2. Express conveyer belts and normal conveyer belts move 1 space in the direction of the arrows.
[...]

Rotating Conveyer Belts.
Some conveyer belts spaces have a curved arrow indicating a rotating section. A Robot that's moved onto a rotating conveyer belt space by another conveyer belt space is rotated 90 degrees in addition to being moved forward with the normal movement of the belt. This is true even when a robot is moved from a express conveyer belt onto a rotating normal conveyer belt.

This rotating happens only if the robot is moved onto the rotating space by another conveyer belt, not when the robot moves onto the rotating space on its own or as a result of being pushed. In those cases, the belt doesn't rotate the robot; it simply moves the robot normally (to the next field, JeVo) when the boardelements move.
[...]
In the rule book are two more very helphulp pictures.


So two rules of thumb :
* Treat the whole factory as empty when you execute the register cards.
* When the robots are moved by the conveyer belts, remember to follow the arrow of the field you are going to...

Hope this helps,
JeVo
 
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Or to wite the second rule of thumb in other words,
as it can be seen in the pictures of the rulebook :

Look at the facing of your robot relatively to the arrowhead of the spot you're standing before the conveyer belts move.
After the belt has moved, your relative facing towards the arrowhead is the same.

JeVo
 
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L. Scott Johnson
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JeVo wrote:

* Treat the whole factory as empty when you execute the register cards.


Except walls, pits, (and if you're using the old WotC boards) water, oil, teleporters, etc.
 
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That demo is definitely wrong.

I just tried it two times in a row using the cards the original poster indicated, and the demo moved the robot differently each time. The first time, the robot did NOT rotate at all as it moved along the conveyor.

The second time, it rotated 90 degrees in the wrong direction after it left the curved arrow square.

They really need to fix that demo.

There is another error in the demo, as well, in case you missed it. In the explanation of "Damage and Destruction" it says that a destroyed robot returns to the field fully repaired, yet in the rulebook it says that they return with 2 damage tokens.
 
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Rik Van Horn
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harryhavana wrote:
Quote:
But if a slow conveyor dumps you off on a fast one, you'll already have passed the fast conveyor move phase, so you won't be moved a second square).


Id agree with you up to this point(above)

if a slow conveyer belt dumps you on a fast conveyer belt during the normal belt phase. - Then you would move again during the fast conveyer phase.

The way we see the rules and always have done is that :

All Conveyer belts move during the first conveyer phase.
Then Only the fast conveyer belts move during the second conveyer belt phase.

Makes perfect sense to me.


That's incorrect, at least according to the original rules. I've never seen the rerelease.

In the original rules, fast conveyors move one, then fast and slow move one according to the floor guide contained in the game.

Then pushers push.
Then gears turn.
Then crushers crush.
Then lasers fire.

That's the sequence of floor effects.

I scanned the floor guide for you, maybe that will help.

 
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Bill Slobotski
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The demo seems to be entirely wrong concerning the 90 degree turn in the lower right conveyor.

If you do this:

Rotate Right
Back Up
U Turn
Rotate Right
Move 1

you will move onto this 90 degree turn. When the conveyor runs, you will be rotated, but this contradicts the rulebook which says any robot that moves to a bend on its own will NOT rotate.

And testing out Michael Pearsall's (original poster) experiment also shows that the robot did not rotate when moved to a bend from another conveyor square. The rulebook says that it SHOULD rotate.

So Avalon's got a little bug to get ironed out . The demo was fun though, and made me go out and buy the game yesterday.
 
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