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Steve G.
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Been looking for a good 4X space game, and Eclipse is a major contender. Got a couple of nagging concerns though. Was hoping some folks in the know could address a couple of concerns one way or another.

WHIPPING-BOY SYNDROME VERSUS THE WAY OF THE TURTLE
In any game where a player can be ganged-up on, there's a design dilemma: should it provide a strong path for turtling, or is it just going to be one of those things where a player finds himself doomed by simple virtue of being the odd-man-out and has to suck it up? It's a tough balancing act. The former drives conservative players towards isolationism, while the latter relegates some poor slob to being ground into the dirt to the point where he'll never get back on his feet. How gracefully does Eclipse handle this?

STICKER SHOCK (well, more like a slight jolt)
Experience has shown me that some people can get a bit testy when this question is asked about a game, but in this case I'll risk it: what's with the premium price tag? Games are getting steadily more expensive, but Eclipse is above the norm. The components appear to be standard fare: cardboard tiles, placemats, wooden cubes, and plastic bits, but I've never seen it in person.



 
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Jason Adultman
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Turtling is not really an option because you can get tons of points via combat, even if you are losing those combats.

The price tag has to do with the fact that there is a ton of material in the game and it is very high quality. If/when you get it you will notice that the box is huge.
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Nate Straight

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steveg700 wrote:
WHIPPING-BOY SYNDROME VERSUS THE WAY OF THE TURTLE
In any game where a player can be ganged-up on, there's a design dilemma: should provide a strong path for turtling, or is it just going to be one of those things where a player finds himself doomed by simple virtue of being the odd-man-out and has to suck it up? It's a tough balancing act. The former drives conservative players towards isolationism, while the latter relegates some poor slob to being ground into the dirt to the point where he'll never get back on his feet. How gracefully does Eclipse handle this?


Quite. It's less likely that one player gets walloped on than it is that one player gets a little more powerful than the rest [usually due to their own good play] and wallops on everybody. If you're just picking on someone for the sake of picking on them in Eclipse, you're going down because you're not going to be able to defend your flanks.

Quote:
STICKER SHOCK (well, more like a slight jolt)
Experience has shown me that some people can get a bit testy when this question is asked about a game, but in this case I'll risk it: what's with the premium price tag? Games are getting steadily more expensive, but Eclipse is above the norm. The components appear to be standard fare: cardboard tiles, placemats, wooden cubes, and plastic bits, but I've never seen it in person.


Yes, it's all standard fare, but there's a shitton of it.



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G B
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This game ridiculous good. Buy it, play it, and you will love it.
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Mathue Faulkner
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As for #2, if you can still find a Barnes & Noble that has Eclipse, the game was on crazy clearance (75% off, or around $25):
http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/156588/item/2625760#item26... (one example)

You could even try calling remote Barnes & Nobles to see if they have it, and are willing to ship it. It's still going to be a deal even if shipping isn't cheap.
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Eric Matthews
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For the price point I wish the graphics weren't so dull and that they had chosen something a little more thematic for all of the accounting than wooden cubes. Sure wood is classier than cardboard, but it doesn't exactly scream slick space theme to me.

Then again it is a euro so I suppose wooden cubes helps telegraph that.

E
 
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Ryan Hanson
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I don't fully understand your first question, and I haven't played enough to answer it anyways.

However, as to your second question, I believe the components to be above standard fare. Not only is there an immense amount of components in the box, the graphic design and utility of the components is all well thought out and really contributes to enjoyable and smooth gameplay. I would rate the components as some of the best that I have ever seen, with the exception of the plastic starships which are noticeably sub-par but adequate (I use TI3 pieces where possible).

As for the wooden cubes, I think it can be a positive or a negative. I'm in the process of trying to convince my dad to try out Eclipse and as he is a fan of Agricola, the wooden cubes are a plus for me. I think they do increase the appeal to the euro gamer even though Eclipse is really more of a strategy game with euro-game engines driving it.
 
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Andy Day

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steveg700 wrote:
Been looking for a good 4X space game, and Eclipse is a major contender. Got a couple of nagging concerns though. Was hoping some folks in the know could address a couple of concerns one way or another.

WHIPPING-BOY SYNDROME VERSUS THE WAY OF THE TURTLE
In any game where a player can be ganged-up on, there's a design dilemma: should it provide a strong path for turtling, or is it just going to be one of those things where a player finds himself doomed by simple virtue of being the odd-man-out and has to suck it up? It's a tough balancing act. The former drives conservative players towards isolationism, while the latter relegates some poor slob to being ground into the dirt to the point where he'll never get back on his feet. How gracefully does Eclipse handle this?

STICKER SHOCK (well, more like a slight jolt)
Experience has shown me that some people can get a bit testy when this question is asked about a game, but in this case I'll risk it: what's with the premium price tag? Games are getting steadily more expensive, but Eclipse is above the norm. The components appear to be standard fare: cardboard tiles, placemats, wooden cubes, and plastic bits, but I've never seen it in person.

In an attempt to give you an opinion from a non-fanboy...

WHIPP VS TURTLE: I have found that turtling is a popular choice, though it is accomplished in a round-about way (by placing your exploration tiles so that you don't connect). Unfortunately, 1 technology can make the difference between a balanced combat and a run-away victory, and the player that gets said technology will often roll over the Galactic Center, and then roll over any/all other players. As was noted by another poster, I've noticed less gang-banging and more single guy banging.

I have found conflicts to be entirely 1-sided in this game. There's no profit in fighting somebody who has a chance of fighting back. War is not used to settle disputes or gain territory (you typically get more than enough territory through exploration), it is used to earn points, or take points away from an opponent.

STICKER SHOCK
There is a lot of cardboard in the game, and the quality is good. But I've found an equal amount/quality in games that are a lot cheaper. I also think the art is bland and the plastic is not that great in either quality nor design. All told, I find the game overpriced.

Of course, I'd buy it if I actually liked it as a game. Which I don't.
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Gylthinel wrote:
War is not used to settle disputes or gain territory (you typically get more than enough territory through exploration), it is used to earn points, or take points away from an opponent.


I guess we play differently because I definitely battle to take over a hex that looks appealing (planets to colonize). I get points for the battle and then I boost my economy while disrupting theirs.
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Fernando Robert Yu
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Rodego wrote:
Gylthinel wrote:
War is not used to settle disputes or gain territory (you typically get more than enough territory through exploration), it is used to earn points, or take points away from an opponent.


I guess we play differently because I definitely battle to take over a hex that looks appealing (planets to colonize). I get points for the battle and then I boost my economy while disrupting theirs.


I agree. In fact you may have no choice but to rely on your fleet to gain territory in the case you are surrounded by a bunch of Ancients, unless you are of the Draco race.
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James Motz
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The cubes and disks integrate marvelously with the graphic design choices, clearly indicating that this thing deals with the cubes (cause it's square) and that thing over there deals with disks (cause it's a circle). Shapes and colors play a significant role in providing easy to understand cues on how all the different parts interact. If you've played Race for the Galaxy for example, I find the iconography in Eclipse to be much more accessible.

While flashier cardboard or miniatures certainly could have replaced the cubes, to my mind at least there's a certain classy elegance in the simplicity. And the table gets pretty busy visually just with cubes and disks and ships.

Your mileage may vary.
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Jarrod Murray
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mfaulk80 wrote:
As for #2, if you can still find a Barnes & Noble that has Eclipse, the game was on crazy clearance (75% off, or around $25):
http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/156588/item/2625760#item26... (one example)

You could even try calling remote Barnes & Nobles to see if they have it, and are willing to ship it. It's still going to be a deal even if shipping isn't cheap.


I had B&N in Maui, HI ship Eclipse to me in Seattle, WA. $30.16 spent total, $3.99 in shipping.
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Dan Regs
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Turtling is a tactic/strategy in this game, and can win you games (but only if you get monoliths). Going on the offensive is definitely worth VP, but you want to fight where your odds are good. A runaway leader is not really problematic, because at that point the game is almost over like turn 8-9.

As for pricing. I found Eclipse to be worth far more than what I paid for it. So much so that I invested in the expansion, and then plastic trays to keep my cubes from being knocked around. I've been eying those linen mats too. If more material were available for the game - I would wishlist it. But your mileage may vary.
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Andy Day

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Rodego wrote:
Gylthinel wrote:
War is not used to settle disputes or gain territory (you typically get more than enough territory through exploration), it is used to earn points, or take points away from an opponent.


I guess we play differently because I definitely battle to take over a hex that looks appealing (planets to colonize). I get points for the battle and then I boost my economy while disrupting theirs.

No doubt, and table metagame has a huge impact on games such as Eclipse. At my tables, players tend to hedge out opponents and obfuscate combat until the endgame. By that point, you've already blown tons of discs grabbing what turf you can. True, taking a territory could net you some more points, but the resource grabs are inconsequential that late in the game. I simply cite that as a general rule with my players, wars of conquest are pointless (figuratively and literally). Incursions to grab desireable territories aren't really "war" IMO.
 
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Ben Barber

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In my opinion regarding the price tag, this game is not worth one penny over $50... it shouldn't be sold for more than that because the pieces are anything but detailed (wooden cubes, little gumball-machine style space ships, and more wooden cubes). It is a very fun game, and one of my personal favorites, but I would never have paid more than what I got on it for on Amazon with a discount.
 
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G B
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And don't forget about 90 well made technology tiles, 25 reputation tiles, and then another 100 or so ship part tiles.

Then there are the hexes: 20 or so tier 3, 20 or so tier 2, and then like 10 tier 1.

Then there are the 7 starting hexes.

And then there are the 25 or so Discovery Tiles.

And then there are the 6 Player Boards and the Technology Track.

Ultimately, my numbers aren't perfect, but there are about 300 tiles of well made, high quality, durable material.

Then there are the 18 dice.

Then there are the 2 bags for the various tiles.

Of course, the above dude mentions the 84 ships and the 300 wooden pieces.

I paid $85 and I don't regret a single penny of it.
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Ben Barber

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I don't know, I guess this is the first expensive boardgame I've purchased in years made with only cardboard/card stock, wood, regular dice (which-oooh, are red, yellow and orange rather than plain white) and unpainted miniatures (for lack of a better term). Don't get me wrong, if they had designed the mini ships well it would have nearly doubled the price tag, I'm just saying all artwork/illustrations aside, this game is about as basically componented as it can get. This is only my opinion, but I really am not making any of this up, (we all get to choose what we extract from reviews as we see fit).
 
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Andy Day

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ghbell wrote:
And don't forget about 90 well made technology tiles, 25 reputation tiles, and then another 100 or so ship part tiles.

Then there are the hexes: 20 or so tier 3, 20 or so tier 2, and then like 10 tier 1.

Then there are the 7 starting hexes.

And then there are the 25 or so Discovery Tiles.

And then there are the 6 Player Boards and the Technology Track.

Ultimately, my numbers aren't perfect, but there are about 300 tiles of well made, high quality, durable material.

Then there are the 18 dice.

Then there are the 2 bags for the various tiles.

Of course, the above dude mentions the 84 ships and the 300 wooden pieces.

I paid $85 and I don't regret a single penny of it.

I haven't done a count or anything, but Twilight Imperium cost a bit less than Eclipse, and I feel I got more for my money. Better ships, better tiles, better player mats with better art and better theme. Not saying TI is a better game, but components vs. cost wise it's out of Eclipse's league.

 
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Mikko Saari
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Twilight Imperium is also produced in much larger scale by a much larger publisher. Also, Twilight Imperium is made by an US publisher, while Eclipse is an import from Europe in US (you must be US, as here in Finland Eclipse is much cheaper than Twilight Imperium).
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Andy Day

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msaari wrote:
Twilight Imperium is also produced in much larger scale by a much larger publisher. Also, Twilight Imperium is made by an US publisher, while Eclipse is an import from Europe in US (you must be US, as here in Finland Eclipse is much cheaper than Twilight Imperium).

Legitimate reasons, but it doesn't change the facts.

 
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Shawn Burk
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Gylthinel wrote:
Legitimate reasons, but it doesn't change the facts.

Gylthinel wrote:
I haven't done a count or anything, but Twilight Imperium cost a bit less than Eclipse, and I feel I got more for my money.

You are entitled to your opinion, but be clear, feel is not fact.
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Andy Day

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Deadsider wrote:
Gylthinel wrote:
Legitimate reasons, but it doesn't change the facts.

Gylthinel wrote:
I haven't done a count or anything, but Twilight Imperium cost a bit less than Eclipse, and I feel I got more for my money.

You are entitled to your opinion, but be clear, feel is not fact.

Touche! Cannot argue with that. At least not without going and doing the math. Which I don't care to do. But the FFG site says the base game comes with 200 or so units (as opposed to
 
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