Shawn Low
Australia
Footscray
Victoria
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
OK, I took alot of time to light, take, photoshop and post some images. Alot gor rejected.

They were rejected for sometimes silly reasons (see below) and by people who were obviously not clicking on the image to enlarge things.

Case in point:

1) http://files.boardgamegeek.com/bggimages/pic114142_t.jpg

This image was reject for having a blurry hand motion? WHAT THE? The board and pieces are obviously clear. The handmotion adds a level or interation to the game.

2) http://files.boardgamegeek.com/bggimages/pic114148_t.jpg
http://files.boardgamegeek.com/bggimages/pic114162_t.jpg
http://files.boardgamegeek.com/bggimages/pic114158_t.jpg
http://files.boardgamegeek.com/bggimages/pic114186_t.jpg

Rejected for being blurry? Depth of field problems?

If the moderator who rejected it had ACTUALLY clicked to enlarge the photo, he/she will realise that the depth of field was done to HIGHLIGHT one part of the game components. The components are clear and is in no way blurred.

I often use depth of field to emphasize a particular component. The component will ALWAYS be sharp with the background blurry.

3) http://files.boardgamegeek.com/bggimages/pic114171_t.jpg

Photo declined for being IRRELEVANT to the game. This is a close up of the Q-Jet japanese version of Ave Caesar. It's listed under the same game!

4) http://files.boardgamegeek.com/bggimages/pic114164_t.jpg

Declined because of my thumb in photos. If the user had clicked on the photo, he/she will be able to see the quality of the Q-Jet board in DETAIL! See also geeklist on best of photos with thumbs in them.


Tips for would-be moderators:

I thank you for helping, but if we are to begin to make the Geek a better palce, please search for geeklists on Best photos on the geek. It helps give you ideas as to what good photography standards are.

Best Photos List
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist.php3?action=view&listi...

Best Photographers List
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist.php3?action=view&listi...

1) You'll find similar shots using depth of field to empahsize components. This is not blurry photos: it's a photography technique.

2) Close up shots are often done to show the quality of components.

3) Box comparisions are useful to help prospective buyers factor in game size and quality.

4) CLICK on the thumbnail of the photo to enlarge it before you pass judgement. Often, clear photos will be blurry and creative use of depth of field may appear as blur.

5) Do some research. Don't reject a photo because you are unfamiliar with the game. For example: Ave Caear was released in Japan as Q-Jet. They share the same gamer listing page.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Alden
United States
Dallas
Texas
flag msg tools
admin
badge
Aldie's Full of Love!
Avatar
mb
FYI - the images are automatically shown in expanded form now.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
helyana manso
Brazil
Unspecified
sao paulo
flag msg tools
Avatar
ooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh my god shawn!!!! I soooooo agree with you!!!!
I am just recovering from a declined picture which was perfect... I am so disappointed...
they declined it because it was too similar to another picture. the thing is: *I* have taken the other picture too. it was the same board, but from a different angle. the declined one showed the board with details that couldn't be seen in the accepted one...

and the declined one was actually better than the accepted one...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shawn Low
Australia
Footscray
Victoria
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Aldie wrote:
FYI - the images are automatically shown in expanded form now.


Last I checked, the images were still fairly small. I think that 640*480 as a preview would be good enough to tell if there's camera shake, etc. Those on dialup *might* suffer but I think that preserving the best quality images on BGG is more important here than trying to lower quality for the lowest common denominator.

I'll admit that I was a little riled when I posted my suggestion.

But I still think the points are very valid.

I think that people are in too eager to moderate (perhaps to help out, perhaps to get that little tiny portion of GG) and as such, quality if suffering.

I'm working on an FAQ for photographers as well as moderators. Will try to get it approved.

Another thought:

I understand that there are teething problems but I'm sure it will be solved with time. Perhaps a photo needs at least x number of rejections before it can be dismissed? Same with acceptances.


 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Pardoe
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
shawn_low wrote:
Perhaps a photo needs at least x number of rejections before it can be dismissed? Same with acceptances.


I had thought this was already the system. A single GeekMod is deciding the acceptance/rejection of an image - instead it is some consensus opinion of multiple GeekMods.

I know when I look at my GeekMod history I see images that I declined that were accepted and images I accepted that were declined.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fraser
Australia
Melbourne
flag msg tools
admin
designer
Back in the days when there were less maps we played every map back to back
badge
Ooh a little higher, now a bit to the left, a little more, a little more, just a bit more. Oooh yes, that's the spot!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It certainly takes more than one rejection to stop a photo from being approved. There are some (IMHO) pretty shoddy photos that have been approved that are cases in point meeple
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fraser
Australia
Melbourne
flag msg tools
admin
designer
Back in the days when there were less maps we played every map back to back
badge
Ooh a little higher, now a bit to the left, a little more, a little more, just a bit more. Oooh yes, that's the spot!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
shawn_low wrote:

Declined because of my thumb in photos. If the user had clicked on the photo, he/she will be able to see the quality of the Q-Jet board in DETAIL! See also geeklist on best of photos with thumbs in them.


Almost as good as the hands GeekList. Thumbs and Hands are excellent, if used in an artistic context. Thumbs do not get the thumbsdown from me, thumbs are thumbsup
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg Schloesser
United States
Jefferson City
TN
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hey, Shawn! While your photos may be good in terms of photographic technique, one question that must be asked when preparing to upload a photo is "does this really add to someone's understanding or appreciation of the game"? After glancing at the photos you submitted, I would say that they do not. Granted, this is highly subjective, but still a consideration.

I, for one, don't really get much from photos that are extreme close-ups of some game components, particularly cards. It just doesn't give me much information.

I am sure another consideration is space. Just how many photos does the Geek need of each game? I'm sure a handful on each would suffice.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
helyana manso
Brazil
Unspecified
sao paulo
flag msg tools
Avatar
has anyone looked at my rejected photos?
ok about the "magier von pangea" cover, but one of the other 2, I still think it really deserved to be approved...
or am I a whiner?
yuk
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Normal
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
gschloesser wrote:
Hey, Shawn! While your photos may be good in terms of photographic technique, one question that must be asked when preparing to upload a photo is "does this really add to someone's understanding or appreciation of the game"? After glancing at the photos you submitted, I would say that they do not. Granted, this is highly subjective, but still a consideration.

I, for one, don't really get much from photos that are extreme close-ups of some game components, particularly cards. It just doesn't give me much information.

I am sure another consideration is space. Just how many photos does the Geek need of each game? I'm sure a handful on each would suffice.



I concur with Greg.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
LC
United States
Florissant
Colorado
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
It's pretty sad when someone takes the time to click some pics and upload them to BGG and the reason that EACH pic is rejected are as follows:

Reasons:
Reason: The image was too similar to another image already in the database.
Reason: The image was irrelevant to the subject.
Reason: The image was too big (resoultion).
Reason: The image was a duplicate or too similar to an image we already have.
Reason: The image was too small.

I mean c'mon, I don't even know the reason my pics were rejected.arrrh If BGG wants submissions then they should at least have the respect to give the appropriate reason for rejection.

Quote:
I, for one, don't really get much from photos that are extreme close-ups of some game components, particularly cards. It just doesn't give me much information.

I am sure another consideration is space. Just how many photos does the Geek need of each game? I'm sure a handful on each would suffice.


This is a matter of opinion. I agree with others that it should require more than one person to decide if a picture is worthy of submittal. Maybe it would be best if they didn't give GG for pictures. Then there would be less incentive for people to post them and also less incentive for the moderators to reject them.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shawn Low
Australia
Footscray
Victoria
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
gschloesser wrote:
Hey, Shawn! While your photos may be good in terms of photographic technique, one question that must be asked when preparing to upload a photo is "does this really add to someone's understanding or appreciation of the game"? After glancing at the photos you submitted, I would say that they do not. Granted, this is highly subjective, but still a consideration.

I, for one, don't really get much from photos that are extreme close-ups of some game components, particularly cards. It just doesn't give me much information.



Thanks Greg but I have to differ with you on that one.

In looking at all the photos on BGG, they roughly fall into certain categories:

1) Game in play (wide shots of group around game, medium shot of game board with all components and perhaps hands in shot, close ups of a game board in progress).

2) Scans of counters, cards.

3) Components (close up of components and board, comparison with other editions)

4) Box shots (comparison with other games, box on table, etc).

5) Comedy shots (cats using box as litter, cute babies swallowing components)

6) Social/documentary shots (a minority but there are some good ones that are photojournalistic is style. This is similar to category 1 but have a dislocated reportage style to them).

It's really hard to determine exactly what category of shots should be accepted on BGG. I do agree that quality is better than quality.

IMHO, component shots (Category 3 and 4) are very useful. I would like to know what the games looks like before buying them. Graphic design and production quality are important. This is especially useful for buyers who don't have easy access to game stores, demos, conventions, etc. The local store doesn't stock what you'd easily find in stores in the US.

Common games like Carcassonne are easy to find but if I'm going to shell out $50 for a game plus shipping, I'd like to see exactly what I'm buying. Overseas buyers need such information.

Case in point: I've had quite a few geekmails telling me that a closeup image I took of components for the game China made them go out and buy it! This shot was a closeup with fairly shallow depth of field.

In determining appreciation for the game, I think that social shots and the game in play (category 1 and 6) really help but we need closeups for the reason I gave above.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shawn Low
Australia
Footscray
Victoria
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm wondering how we can best work out a photo moderation system. Some suggestions:

1) Back to using moderators. Get BGGers who have some measure of graphic design and photographic skills to help moderate the images. A large group of moderators from different timezones around the world would help.

Yes, this could be a point of contention. BGG is a community, but sometimes quality suffers because we of the need for mass consensus. If we want BGG to be shine, we need quality not quantity.

2) Don't give GG for photos OR perhaps give 0.5 GG per photo to discourage people from blitzing crap photos onto BGG for quick GG.

3) Don't give people GG for moderating photos to discourage people from doing a blitz on photo moderation.

4) If point 1 is implented, go through BGG archives to cull poor quality photos.

5) Work on an indepth FAQ for would be photographers (this can be similar to the BSW guide). This includes tips on composition, lighting, colour correction, photoshopping, etc.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Normal
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
I agree that a lot of the shots that were submitted and accepted in the past are not ones that I would deem acceptable today. But those shots that you're referring to were probably taken awhile back when BGG was just starting out and I'm pretty sure they didn't have any particular criteria on which to base their decisions on whether to accept a submitted photo.
I'm also assuming that when some of the pictures starting rolling in, most of the games in the database didn't even have 1 photo. So when someone submitted a picture of a particular game that included a cat or cute baby..etc they gladly accepted the picture without worrying about whether or not it had imparted a better appreciation of the game in question.

Then again I could completely wrong!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
helyana manso
Brazil
Unspecified
sao paulo
flag msg tools
Avatar
i think the system might be something like this: imediately after a shot gets a pre-defined number of "approves" or "declines", it is then sent to its destiny.
it's like a race, 'cause if the first 10 (?) didn't like your photo, it doesn't matter if the other (late) 50 (?) liked it. if the photo has reached the minimum number of "fors" or "againsts", it's settled.
but i'm just guessing here...
maybe when a shot comes close to a tie (30 votes, 48% for, 52% against), then it should be sent to the moderators (the *real* moderators) like it was before; but just the special cases, tie cases...
i still find at least one of my 3 rejected photos very useful and ok...

ah, what the hell! that particular photo is really beautiful!!!

but i'm getting bored with myself already
snore

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg Schloesser
United States
Jefferson City
TN
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm not up-to-snuff on the exact mechanisms, but I understand that there are a handful of folks VOLUNTEERING to help moderate the Geek. They review submissions (reports, reviews, photos, etc.) and make sure the submission is something they feel necessary, relevant, or useful. I know that they are often completely overwhelmed, as the amount of submissions is incredible.

I, for one, applaud a heavy-handed approach regarding moderation. Much of the information on the Geek is repetitive and, for me at least, useless. That's the nature of the beast, however. In making the Geek a resource for ALL types of games and allowing relatively open submissions, it has been indundated with material. I find myself having to weed through hundreds and hundreds of posts (lists, forums, etc.) to find one or two things I find interesting or useful.

Now, that's me. What I find uninteresting or a waste of time, I am absolutely certain others find useful. So, in spite of my complaining, I must accept the fact that the Geek isn't the tight, highly focused forum I personally desire. That is why I mainly use it to consult issues on specific games, and not fully browse or participate in the dozens of other areas available. There is simply too many weeds to fight through to find the few flowers.

This brings me to the subject of pictures. While I can certainly see where a few photos of a the game and its components can be useful to someone potentially interested in acquiring a game, I really see no need for many photos beyond that. The only other thing that interests me is viewing the folks actually playing the game ... and that is just because I like to associate faces with names!

So, I see no reason to upload dozens of photos for each game. It is a waste of space (and bandwidth). To try to put into place a system wherein a committee of folks must view and approve or disapprove photos seems, well, like overkill and a colossal waste of time. But again, that's just my opinion.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.