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Commands & Colors: Ancients» Forums » Rules

Subject: Leader Evasion rss

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Bill Bennett
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This is a repeat question from a few days ago, but seeing that RB was on the forum answering rules questions, I thought I'd pose it again.

The leader evasion rules say that a player can "choose" to evade his leader off the battlefield. But if a leader is in the last row of his side's hexes and is attacked but not hit, wouldn't he be forced to evade at least one hex and off the board? And if this is the case, is such a leader still not counted as a victory banner, though the evasion off the board is not voluntary?

 
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Robin Reeve
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If the leader is at the edge of his side of the board is less in a "voluntary" situation, than if he can choose to stop his evading movement before he goes over the edge...
He still has the "choice" to flee the battlefield or to be eliminated (and offer a banner to his enemy). The "choice" seems straightforward in this case : fleeing is preferable...
 
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Kevin Duke
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I'm with Robin on this. There is no evasion that is a "choose" situation but the owning player does get to choose the route (with severe restrictions.) Let's say he is 2 rows from the back line. There are two hexes behind him, one of them containing an enemy unit. The unit attacks him and misses. He is forced to evade. Since the rules (the toughest thing to grasp in my opinion, even tho it is a straightforward concept) say he HAS to evade toward his side of the board, his "choices" are to move into the hex with the enemy unit (and die) or head off the board, since he can evade up to three hexes.

That "hard" part comes in multiple flavors, among them being that he cannot run away from the direction of the attack-- he has to run toward his side of the board. And lateral moves are not allowed, so he could not head for that first open hex (next to the attacker) and then move another hex sideways, even if that brought him to a full strength HI unit of his own army. (Hard rule.)

In this case, I do think he could move to that open space next to the enemy and STAY there, hoping to be able to move away under his own power in his turn (or be joined by an ordered unit.)

RICHARD B.-- THERE'S ANOTHER ONE TO ANSWER.
 
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Kevin Duke
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Okay, just checked the rules-- in the above example, the leader COULD have stopped in that open hex and CHOOSEN not to run off the board--(hoping to move later or have a unit join him) or he could have chosen to move a second hex and flee.

The interesting part is the "leader escape" rule-- there's one I had not thought of.

Let's say BOTH of those hexes---between him and his side of the board-- had enemy units. One attacks and missed. He HAS to evade or die. He can go right INTO the hex with the enemy unit. They get another attack at him with normal CC die (no terrain effects) and one leader hit kills him. If they miss, he can/must keep going. In this example, off the board. In some other case...maybe to rejoin a friendly!

So picking which unit to run thru is a "choose" thing, as in who will roll fewer dice?
 
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Nate Merchant
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OK, y'all, now that we're on this topic, we just had a conundrum today in the Lake Trasimenus scenario with a leader not being able to Evade:

I was Rome and had Flaminius and his retinue two hexes left from where they are in the scenario set-up. A Carthaginian unit crunched into them, killing the whole unit. The Romans missed killing the general, but then it says the general MUST Evade. But he couldn't, as he was against the lake. Was he dead? Did he Evade into the lake with his water wings? Does he stay?

We looked all over the rules to find out what happens when the general cannot Evade. Nothing (to my knowledge) says he is killed, so this seems to be a rather important hole in the rules.

Thanks!
 
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Richard Borg
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Q. When a leader cannot evade (retire) is he lost?
A. After a leader survives a leader casualty check, the leader must evade 1, 2 or 3 hexes. The key word in the rule is must. (Actually it is a little difficult for me to get use to the term leader evade. We always referred to this action as the leader must retire, but that is really beside the point, just wanted to point this out to all just in case I slip back and start using some old terminology.) If the leader cannot move back he is eliminated and counts as a victory banner.

Richard Borg
 
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Jim Crimmins
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Thanks for the clarification! So instead of getting completely trounced the other day, I only got 'mostly' trounced
We incorrectly played it that the leader had to leave the board but no flag was given...
 
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Kevin Duke
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Yes, this "what happens if you can't" is one of the actual "holes" in the rules, meaning it is a question that is not explicitly answered. Especially with the Lake T. scenario.

The rules say "MUST" and that was expected to convey that if a "must" can't be done, something dies.

However, most of the rules posted really can be found-- it might not be on the page where you think of the question, but it's in there.

Read all the way through, one time, and you'll be a lot better prepared to enjoy the game.

(Radical I know!)
 
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