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Subject: Alternate CRT for standard dice rss

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Wilhelm Fitzpatrick
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I have submitted to the file section an alternate CRT using standard 6 sided dice. The intent of this CRT is allow the use of standard dice, while preserving all probabilities identical to what would be obtained with the symbol dice. In addition, my goals were to make the meanings of each die result as consistent as possible (for example, 6 always hits, 1 is always retreat), and to include as many special cases as possible to avoid the need for memorizing rules. My hope is that this CRT will prove easier to follow in the heat of the game than the symbol dice, which I'm afraid I found lightly confusing in play.

The file I've uploaded contains two copies of the CRT on one standard page, with the idea that it can be printed and cut in half so you have one for each player.

I'd love to hear suggestions or comments on improvements, inaccuracies (i.e. if probabilities don't match the symbol dice), overlooked special cases, etc.
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Richard Irving
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There is actually a much simpler way to use standard dice. There is no need to list separate sides for light, medium & heavy hits.

- If a unit does not hit on crossed swords, hit on 1's only.
- Unit hits on crossed swords, hit on 2 or less.
- Leader effect: increase appropriate hit number by 1.
- (For rolling additional elephant hits, treat natural 1's as the crossed swords for ease of identification.)
- Natural 6's are always a retreat flag.
 
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Kevin Duke
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Mathematically correct, but it loses the "joy" and frustration of rolling the "wrong" things.

1s always hit, all the time. That's way too 'normal' for a game like this, where we get to cackle if they attack our Light unit and throw 3 red hits. Or vice versa.
 
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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Does this have any purpose, other than as an aid to people who are trying to play the game without purchasing a copy?
 
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Paul Dobbins
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Sphere wrote:
Does this have any purpose, other than as an aid to people who are trying to play the game without purchasing a copy?


The simple answer is an easy replacement for the poor dice and out sized stickers that came with the game, although I appreciate kduke's point, I have no doubt the charm of "hits of a different color" will wear off very quickly.
 
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Nomadic Gamer
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Yep, I replace dice all the time when I play a games with ugly/mismatched dive & would here, too....
 
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Richard Irving
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kduke wrote:
Mathematically correct, but it loses the "joy" and frustration of rolling the "wrong" things.


I would think the "charm" of rolling the "wrong" things would be canceled quite a bit by an exchange like this:

"Rolling 5 dice for my heavies on your warriors."
ROLL
"One, two , three hits."
"Wait, you rolled only one 3 and one 5. "
"I though the ones and fours hit, ones for crossed swords, and 2 fours for heavy?"
"Fours are the leader hit...."
Etc.

Ease of use is much preferred here.

I prefer my dice substitution method--I replace the el cheapo GMT dice with extra Battle Cry dice I had laying around. (I own 3 sets of BC.)
 
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Wilhelm Fitzpatrick
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I certainly take Richard's point of view vis-a-vis the "fun" of rolling the "wrong" result on the stickered dice. My purpose in creating this chart what to provide an alternative that preserves the odds as presented in the rules but which is, at least to my thinking, more consistant in terms of interpretation. The "simpler" method posted above is actually pretty much the same approach that I took accept my chart embodies a "roll high" ethos, where as the other method is "roll low". The fly in the ointment is the other rule interactions that look for swords, such as chariots and elephants as targets, and certain types of terrain. This mean that the simple "open the range by one with a leader" doesn't quite work, because a light unit with a leader versus an elephant hits two out of six times (color hit and leader hit), but a heavy unit without a leader versus an elephant only hits one out of six (color hit only). One additional thing I've tried to do on my chart is make sure that ALL the to-hit modifications that are scattered throughout the rules are presented in one place.

At any rate, my chart got a workout at Conquest NW this weekend where they had a CC:A tournament, and it was fairly well received, so I know I'm not the only one who is dubious about the symbol dice.
 
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Kevin Duke
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Yeah, but you said:

"My hope is that this CRT will prove easier to follow in the heat of the game than the symbol dice, which I'm afraid I found lightly confusing in play."


It is one thing being able to play without the special dice that came with the game.

It is another to say you don't like those dice. That is personal taste, although it is interesting to see how many people can't suffice with that and want to cast doubts on whether the game dice roll "accurately" enough.

But "easier to follow in the heat of battle?"

You speak of which numbers represent "sword hits," when we HAVE "swords" on the dice that come with the game.

That' s like saying DOS text is "easier" than icon based programs, because the icons are confusing.
 
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Matthew M
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Isn't there a card the requires that you roll a certain number of dice, giving you the ability to activate one unit of each symbol type rolled? So you would still need the dice for this one card, neh?

-MMM
 
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Wilhelm Fitzpatrick
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Number representing sword hits: I was refering to the process of analysis I went through to make sure the combat odds produced by my chart exactly model those produced using the symbol dice. I was pointing out that the "simple" method alluded to above doesn't seem to accomodate the adjustments required by units who have the ability to ignore "sword" hits.

Rally & I Am Spartacus cards: my chart accomodates these.

All: if you love the symbol dice, don't use my chart. If you find the symbol dice annoying and low quality (as I do), feel free to try out my chart and give me feedback.
 
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Wilhelm Fitzpatrick
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Quote:
Does this have any purpose, other than as an aid to people who are trying to play the game without purchasing a copy?


Absolutely none! I fully advocate that instead of buying a copy, you should scrawl a crude hex grid in the dirt in front of your yurt, and then attempt to play CC:A using random objects found in the yard and copy of the rules to Battle Cry that you dug out of your neighbors trash. Pine cones make great chariots, dead crickets for light cavalry, and bits of gravel as auxilia. You could use my chart, or if you can't afford dice, I recommend just smashing your opponents units with a large river rock if they don't evade when you declare battle. Terrain can easily be simulated by hurling a shovel full of dirt at the board before setting up.

Not one red cent for those bastards at GMT who had the effrontery to publish yet another great game! They must be punished!

WTF?
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Jens Hoppe
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rafial wrote:
Absolutely none! I fully advocate that instead of buying a copy, you should scrawl a crude hex grid in the dirt in front of your yurt, and then attempt to play CC:A using random objects found in the yard and copy of the rules to Battle Cry that you dug out of your neighbors trash. Pine cones make great chariots, dead crickets for light cavalry, and bits of gravel as auxilia. You could use my chart, or if you can't afford dice, I recommend just smashing your opponents units with a large river rock if they don't evade when you declare battle. Terrain can easily be simulated by hurling a shovel full of dirt at the board before setting up.


That sounds kind of fun, actually! I am off to locate the dead crickets.
 
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Kevin Duke
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Re: Alternate game

Thanks for the smiles.

If I've overstepped on the dice, I apologize. Alternative dice are fine with me. (You're welcome.)

I just struggle to understand the need to prove the non-designed alternative is "better than."

Want to talk about pasting the 90% stickers on some high quality, heavy-in-the-hand dice? I'm right with you (altho I hope we don't throw dice at each other when the absurd roll happens!).

Want to talk to me about how converting pips or numbers is superior to the color/icon design? That's a stretch.

But I do love the pine cone and rock variant. It's nice to get some fun back into the game, where we see people "improving" the system before they've finished pasting on their stickers.

I do question the need for DEAD crickets, however. In "my variant," I will use LIVE crickets. And instead of using them for light cav (wimpy things) I will use them for the Elephants. I think that will more historically replicate the chaos which elephants bring to the battlefield.

Watch out for those heavy dice though. We don't want to squish the elephants.
 
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Wilhelm Fitzpatrick
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Quote:
If I've overstepped on the dice, I apologize. Alternative dice are fine with me. (You're welcome.)


Kevin... no overstepping on your part And I look forward to hearing your experience with the live crickets. For those who are looking for convenience over the joy of do it yourself, I believe they can be had by the bagful at your local PetCo or Pet Smart for a fairly small outlay. Always good to keep a few extra in your kit in case of unfortunate squishing incidents.
 
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Kevin Duke
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Any idea how many holes we need to poke in our "armored box" to keep the crickets alive?
 
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Chad Schroeder
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rafial wrote:
Quote:
Does this have any purpose, other than as an aid to people who are trying to play the game without purchasing a copy?


Absolutely none! I fully advocate that instead of buying a copy, you should scrawl a crude hex grid in the dirt in front of your yurt, and then attempt to play CC:A using random objects found in the yard and copy of the rules to Battle Cry that you dug out of your neighbors trash. Pine cones make great chariots, dead crickets for light cavalry, and bits of gravel as auxilia. You could use my chart, or if you can't afford dice, I recommend just smashing your opponents units with a large river rock if they don't evade when you declare battle. Terrain can easily be simulated by hurling a shovel full of dirt at the board before setting up.

Not one red cent for those bastards at GMT who had the effrontery to publish yet another great game! They must be punished!

WTF?


Hilarious! I was particularly amused by the recommendation of just smashing your opponent's units with a large river rock. Also amusing is the possibility that the battles portrayed in the game might have been re-created in just this fashion to the delight of entertained guests by the generals/soldiers who actually participated in or witnessed the battle...of course, with the exception of the copy to the rules of Battle Cry from your neighbor's trash.
 
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