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Subject: You've Had Your Turn rss

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Mario Lanza
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Don't you love it when some other player chimes in during your move with "expert" advice or even unappreciated criticsm. I don't either...

http://boardgamerspastime.com/?p=32
 
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Ben .
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I don't completely agree on the take on kingmaking. While I think it's largely correct, and that it's based on justification, he then goes on to cite two examples - one where he played the kingmaking move and one where it was played against him. Of course, he believed the justification for his own actions was okay but for the other player was not.

Quote:
My sure-fire victory had been swindled! I incredulously asked, “Why in the world did you do that!?” His reply was that he didn’t want to finish in last place.


Seems like a fine justification to me - ending the game to ensure that you finish 4th instead of 5th is just as good an argument as his Carc play moving him from 3rd to 2nd!

Quote:
Had I ended the game, just as I had planned, he would have retained his exact position. In fact, he could have scored more points and gained yet another position. All he succeeded at doing was kingmaking, and I explained all this to him.


Yes, but he couldn't be SURE that the game would have been ended. In an earlier paragraph, he states that:

Quote:
I’m willing to live with the consequences of my choices, good or bad. I don’t need somebody criticizing me for not taking their superior suggestion or becoming indignant because their best laid plans were hinged on my acting accordingly.


But then he expects this other player to know that even if he had chosedn not to end the game that it would have ended immediately after with him in the same position.
I'm sorry, but by his ealier argument, this is NOT a reasonable assumption to make, and the other player ending the game to GUARANTEE a 4th place instead of 5th is a perfectly valid play.

Sounds to me like his applying different levels of valid justification of kingmaking when he does it to when it's done to him.



Other than that, I thought it was a good read, and I agreed with everything he said!
 
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Tim K.
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I have rarely run into such persons, but when I do I offer them a nice big cup of "shut the f*** up" angry

When you play a game like a robot, you're not playing a game robot
 
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Jason Sadler
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From the Halls of Montezuma...
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I hate when people do this. I hate it more when I ignore their sage advice and lose because of it.
 
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Marc P
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"Sorry, no posts matched your criteria."

Looks like it was taken down?

Too bad, sounds like it might have been cathartic.
 
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Gil Hova
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I can't read the post either. What a shame, this is perhaps my biggest pet peeve. Shut up, Howard Cosell!
 
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Mario Lanza
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slowcorner wrote:
"Sorry, no posts matched your criteria."

Looks like it was taken down?


For reasons unknown to me when I make slight edits (typo corrections, etc.) to already published posts, WordPress sometimes flags the post a PRIVATE. Then when I look at the site I see the post so everything appears normal. It's only when I look at my MANAGE tab that I see the private flagging--and correct it.

Sorry.
 
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Mario Lanza
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Snooze_uk wrote:
Quote:
My sure-fire victory had been swindled! I incredulously asked, “Why in the world did you do that!?” His reply was that he didn’t want to finish in last place.


Seems like a fine justification to me - ending the game to ensure that you finish 4th instead of 5th is just as good an argument as his Carc play moving him from 3rd to 2nd!


Did you note this line in my post:

The player who ended the game was completely within his rights for just the reason he cited. It seemed a weak reason, but of course I’m biased.

I had no fundamental issue with him doing what he wanted to do. I didn't like it--and I thought it felt somewhat rude--but it was his right to choose. I harbored no hard feelings.

Snooze_uk wrote:
Quote:
Had I ended the game, just as I had planned, he would have retained his exact position. In fact, he could have scored more points and gained yet another position. All he succeeded at doing was kingmaking, and I explained all this to him.


Yes, but he couldn't be SURE that the game would have been ended.


No argument. That's why his move was a valid one. I personally would not have stolen a victory if only to upgrade my finish from last to second-to-last, but's that me.

Snooze_uk wrote:
In an earlier paragraph, he states that:

Quote:
I’m willing to live with the consequences of my choices, good or bad. I don’t need somebody criticizing me for not taking their superior suggestion or becoming indignant because their best laid plans were hinged on my acting accordingly.


But then he expects this other player to know that even if he had chosedn not to end the game that it would have ended immediately after with him in the same position.


All of that stuff was just me whining for having lost what I thought was a sure win. He had every right to make the move he made.

Snooze_uk wrote:
Sounds to me like his applying different levels of valid justification of kingmaking when he does it to when it's done to him.


Again, I was whining more than justifying. It didn't feel good. This is the basis for my saying players should be prepared to justify why they make kings. He did justify it. I didn't like his reason, but that was his call to make. And I lived with it. No friendships were broken.
 
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Ben .
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Thanks for that, Mario. Reading through my previous post I came across a bit more accusatory than I meant! I'm certainly in no position to complain at anyone else for having a whine about lost games and unexpected moves - I'm probably as bad for doing so as anyone else!

You did quite clearly state that you thought he was within his rights and, most importantly of all, in your last post that you harbored no hard feelings.... the very best way of playing games! You sound like just the kind of relaxed but competitive person I'd love the opportunity to game with.

Great article - really enjoyed reading it. Keep up the good work!!
 
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Mario Lanza
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Snooze_uk wrote:
Thanks for that, Mario. Reading through my previous post I came across a bit more accusatory than I meant!


No matter how critical something sounds when I read it, I've learned to assume a friendly attitude. I didn't take it hard at all.

Snooze_uk wrote:
You sound like just the kind of relaxed but competitive person I'd love the opportunity to game with.


Ditto. Hopefully our paths with cross. Attend any U.S. cons?

Snooze_uk wrote:
Great article - really enjoyed reading it. Keep up the good work!!


Such positive feedback is always appreciated.
 
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Gil Hova
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I mentioned "Howard Cosell" at the top, because I expected the article to be about the one thing that torques me off more than anything else. And while Mario's right about the know-it-all player, what I really hate is the commentator. You know, the one who's not even playing, but will offer up his advice and criticism. But mostly his criticism.

"Oooo, that was a bad move." "Why did you do that?" "You know, I would have done something else." Grrrrr. I was teaching Coloretto (Coloretto!) the other day, and someone came over the shoulder of a first-time player and second-guessed one of her moves. "You shouldn't have flipped that card."

I guess I snapped at him, but it's still not right. Hey, every once in awhile a game of mine will break up, and I'll see what's going on at another convention. I might notice a few things, and ask people how the game is going. But I try not to get on someone's case about how s/he just made a bad move.

Again, comments okay. Critical reprimands... not so much.

Hey, maybe these people are just trying to help. But it doesn't come off as help. Trust me.
 
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Mario Lanza
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IngredientX wrote:
I mentioned "Howard Cosell"...

"Oooo, that was a bad move." "Why did you do that?" "You know, I would have done something else." Grrrrr. I was teaching Coloretto (Coloretto!) the other day, and someone came over the shoulder of a first-time player and second-guessed one of her moves. "You shouldn't have flipped that card."


I don't like that either. The fun of playing is in the learning. I think there is an occasional need to help a beginner out, but don't go overboard. Help when asked.
 
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