Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
16 Posts

Hive» Forums » Rules

Subject: Beetle on Queen rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
T. Rosen
United States
Arlington
Virginia
flag msg tools
admin
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Can you move your Beetle on top of your opponent's Queen to prevent your opponent from ever moving his Queen again? The rules don't prohibit this, so it seems legal, and extremely effective, but I've only played once, so I'm not really sure. Thanks for your help.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
jane martin
United States
Thousand Oaks
California
flag msg tools
Yes, you can do that. It will prevent the opponent moves their Queen.
It also help us to move our pieces from our stack directly to their Queen thus reducing one step(since our Beetle is on top of their Queen, it's now counting as our color).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Angus the Bull
United States
Elyria
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Also remember that this hides the color of the Queen, meaning that you can drop your pieces right in next to it IF your opponent doesn't have one of their own pieces nearby to prevent it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Mississippi
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmb
Definitely legal and devestatingly effective. If you have the opportunity to do this, take it and rejoice (I've never seen anybody win if their Queen got trapped like this).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad Weage
United States
Atlanta
Georgia
flag msg tools
Yes, it can be a very effective move. Not only does it trap the queen, and allow one to add pieces directly next to the opposing queen - but it also positions the beetle to drop down into the final space even if that space is almost or totally surrounded. (The beetle's power to get into a space it can't physically slip into, is premised on it being up and able to drop in.)

This isn't, however, a sure win move. If you have to do it near the end to buy yourself time - it may be too late to save you. If you do this and your opponent moves his beetle on top of yours it may hurt you more than it helped. If his beetle was on the bottom level next to the queen and it moves on top of your beetle - it not only traps your beetle, but it opens a space next to his queen. If that space is nearly surrounded, and you don't have your other beetle or grasshoppers available you can be in really big trouble.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Glassco
United States
Alexandria
Virginia
flag msg tools
Avatar
1. Yes, having your queen covered by your opponent's beetle is usually devastating, so defending against it gets a high priority. Unfortunately in several games I've played, that particular defense takes away from anything else you can do so the game isn't very fun, at least until the aggressive beetles are finally immobilized. In other words, I think it's such a powerful strategy that it (and the defense against it) can dominate the game.
2. By the way, the AI opponent at hivenamia.com seems oblivious to this type of attack and you can beat it every time with a beetle-on-queen attack early in the game. It's so easy it's no challenge, and I have stopped doing that.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Fairbrother
United Kingdom
Nottingham
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Ocssalg wrote:
Unfortunately in several games I've played, that particular defense takes away from anything else you can do so the game isn't very fun, at least until the aggressive beetles are finally immobilized. In other words, I think it's such a powerful strategy that it (and the defense against it) can dominate the game.

I have to agree that Hive is unbalanced towards this strategy, it needs some other rule to balance it.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
T. Rosen
United States
Arlington
Virginia
flag msg tools
admin
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks Jane, Chris, Sam, Brad, Richard, and Kevin for your replies!

meeple
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Dawson
United States
Missouri
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Does the queen need to be uncovered by beetle to win the game, or can a beetle of either color be covering the queen when it is "checkmated"?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
L. Scott Johnson
United States
Columbia
South Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You do not need to expose the queen.
The piece under the beetle is simply "immobilized", not "treated as if removed from the game". At least from the rules. Developer ruling may override that.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ender Wiggins
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Rulemonger wrote:
You do not need to expose the queen. The piece under the beetle is simply "immobilized", not "treated as if removed from the game".


The rules state: "The piece that the Beetle remains on is unable to move and takes on the colour of the Beetle piece." Doesn't this meant that as long as the Beetle remains on the Queen bee, the Queen takes on the other colour, and if it is surrounded at this point the player whose Queen it is actually wins instead of loses?

Example: In a game I recently played as Blue, my opponent (White) placed his White Beetle on my Blue Queen. According to the rule quoted above, this means my Queen takes on the colour Blue, and it temporarily becomes a Blue Queen. If it is surrounded while the Beetle remains on top of it, Blue will lose! So if I move a Soldier Ant to fill in the last gap around my White Queen (but regarded as Blue because it is covered by the White Beetle), would I actually win the game? Even though it is a Blue Queen that is surrounded, it is technically a White Queen because it is covered by the White Beetle, and so White would lose?

Please correct me if I'm misinterpreting the rules here, but it does seem to follow from the rule quoted above.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thomas MacLaney
United States
Royal Oak
Michigan
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
No. I don't think the phrase "takes on the color" means "switches sides." What you have is a White queen that happens to be Blue temporarily. The color change is only for placing pieces around the queen. The rules themselves say "takes on the colour...an advantage when placing." This could have been stated more strongly, true; do the second-edition rules do this?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Pitman
Scotland
Glasgow
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
EndersGame wrote:
Rulemonger wrote:
You do not need to expose the queen. The piece under the beetle is simply "immobilized", not "treated as if removed from the game".


The rules state: "The piece that the Beetle remains on is unable to move and takes on the colour of the Beetle piece." Doesn't this meant that as long as the Beetle remains on the Queen bee, the Queen takes on the other colour, and if it is surrounded at this point the player whose Queen it is actually wins instead of loses?

Example: In a game I recently played as Blue, my opponent (White) placed his White Beetle on my Blue Queen. According to the rule quoted above, this means my Queen takes on the colour Blue, and it temporarily becomes a Blue Queen. If it is surrounded while the Beetle remains on top of it, Blue will lose! So if I move a Soldier Ant to fill in the last gap around my White Queen (but regarded as Blue because it is covered by the White Beetle), would I actually win the game? Even though it is a Blue Queen that is surrounded, it is technically a White Queen because it is covered by the White Beetle, and so White would lose?

Please correct me if I'm misinterpreting the rules here, but it does seem to follow from the rule quoted above.


Hmmm. The rules are certainly not clear on this, although my interpretation would be that placing a beetle on top of a queen does not alter who queen belongs to for the purpose of winning.

However the beetle on queen move does seem to be overly powerful. If you did choose to play so that if this queen was surrounded the owner of the beetle lost the game it would be an effective way of preveting this strategy.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Kift
Canada
New Westminster
BC
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Apollo 8 wrote:
Ocssalg wrote:
Unfortunately in several games I've played, that particular defense takes away from anything else you can do so the game isn't very fun, at least until the aggressive beetles are finally immobilized. In other words, I think it's such a powerful strategy that it (and the defense against it) can dominate the game.

I have to agree that Hive is unbalanced towards this strategy, it needs some other rule to balance it.


Until I read this thread, I always assumed that you couldn't place a piece directly next to the enemy queen, even if it's covered by one of your beetles. This seems to balance things out a bit, so people concerned about the balance of this strategy might want to give it a try.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tony Chen
Taiwan
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
kifty wrote:
Until I read this thread, I always assumed that you couldn't place a piece directly next to the enemy queen, even if it's covered by one of your beetles. This seems to balance things out a bit, so people concerned about the balance of this strategy might want to give it a try.


It doesn't balance it out, it makes this strategy too weak. It's really not that strong. I'd say the game would be worse and less balanced without it (beetle on queen strat).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
EndersGame wrote:
The rules state: "The piece that the Beetle remains on is unable to move and takes on the colour of the Beetle piece." Doesn't this meant that as long as the Beetle remains on the Queen bee, the Queen takes on the other colour, and if it is surrounded at this point the player whose Queen it is actually wins instead of loses?


Brilliant! I have just presented this to my girlfriend (who's not familiar with a lot of boardgaming slang) as a perfect example of rules lawyering.

And based on conversation with the designer at Essen, surrounding the enemy queen while your beetle is on her is a perfectly valid way to win. Still, I can respect your rules lawyerly argument.

The first edition rules do seem to have a lot of ambiguities and confusing points. (Since I first played and bought Hive at Essen I've been reading all the threads here. And the new rules I have are only in German and French...)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.