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Subject: How to interpret a few of the Law Cards? rss

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Chester
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First of all, its entirely possible that I missed this explanation elsewhere, but in reading through the rulebook our group still found some ambiguity on a few of the cards.

Quote:
#7 Craft Bargain: If there are any used craft cubes in the store the trader will accept one resource cube and give you the craft cube in exchange. Play this card at any time.

Is this a one time play? Can the person playing it trade for one cube ONLY? Or does the card stay in effect the entire phase? Does it apply only to the person who played it....or is it a condition for everyone for the entire phase?

I favor this being a one-time play for one single cube...but our last game there was some ambiguity and we ended up letting everyone exchange for used craft cubes until the supply was exhausted. It felt wrong, but I couldn't find persuasive evidence it was.

#15 Bargain (the trader accepts one cube and give two) and #16 Sale (goldsmith or glassmaker require two fewer resource cubes for their respective goods cube) give a similar dilemma. Do these create a condition for ALL players for the entire turn...or just for the player who played the card....or just for one single transaction for the player that played the card?

Here is seems more obvious...because if either #15 or #16 were good for the entire round, people would just trade indefinitely until the store (or the merchant's supply) was completely exhausted. That's just broken. I also think the interpretation of #7 that allows one player to keep trading for multiple cubes from the store (on successive turns) is broken as well.

You could make an argument that if it applies as a condition to ALL players, it KIND OF works, but I still think its broken. Granted, there aren't usually a ton of used goods cubes in the store. But if you had this card and just delayed and did other moves until other opponents had either passed or bought law cards (and were "out") then one player could conceivably just go to town trading for lots of cheap goods cubes. That's way too many VPs to gain.

My point is that I think the cards should each apply to one single transaction. The other issue is: do using these cards count as your action for the turn?

For card #7 Craft Bargain I think its NOT your action. It even says "play any time". It doesn't even need to be during action phases. But the other two #15 Bargain and #16 Sale are MODIFIERS to your normal action.

Is there a FAQ I'm missing? Any authoritative interpretations for these cards? How do YOU play them? Any other card ambiguities I'm missing?
 
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Nick Fisk
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Re: How to interpret of few of the Law Cards?
Not having the game to hand at the moment ....

.... But I'm pretty sure all of the cards are a one-time action for the person playing the card only.

Otherwise, why duck out early to get a card, if it benefits everyone equally?

That's how our group plays it, anyway ....

N.
 
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Re: How to interpret of few of the Law Cards?
We play it the same way you do: it's a one-time play that affects only one transaction.

I think #7 becomes clear with the word "you." It doesn't read "everyone."

Additionally, as you point out with another example, it would likely be vastly overpowered if it were used to grab multiple resource cubes for cheap stone on the last turn of the game. So for the sake of game balance, I'd have to put in one-time play.

Finally, in regards to it being an action, most of the time, I don't think that playing a card should count as an action, esp. given the fact that a large number of plays would happen in stages where taking an action in inappropriate. (What action would destroying somebody else's house be? Where would the price decrease card fit? The one where you get to decide in which order the markers are placed?) Here, again, we generally play as you do: if it seems to modify an action,like Sale, that's how we played it.

Unfortunately, I don't have the game/rules in front of me, so that's the best I can do.

I'm guessing the problem is that's it referred to as a new law, and one would normally think that laws apply to everyone. Maybe it needs to be retitled "new way to break a law?"
 
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anoni mouse
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Re: How to interpret of few of the Law Cards?
The rules state "Each law card is used only once and is effective only once. After it is used it is discarded."
 
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Jay Little
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Re: How to interpret of few of the Law Cards?
kleet wrote:
The rules state "Each law card is used only once and is effective only once. After it is used it is discarded."


Aahh... I missed that when I was skimming the rules. I was in that same game with Cornjob, and the ambiguities kinda' snowballed.

The first law was ambiguous enough that the group vote was to interpret it as available to everyone as a turn option, since it did not specifically state "you" in the text to differentiate it from the far more clearly worded laws making this distinction.

After we made that interpretation, though, the subsequent ones had to fall on the side of our previous ruling, so the effects were compounded.

I think this sped the game up considerably, as folks had access to far more stained glass and gold cubes than they would normally be able to generate that quickly, increasing not only your base VP value, but making it much simpler to purchase the 10 and 12 VP building tiles.

This definitely makes me want to call for a rematch, as it was a very close game under these interpretations, and should prove even more tense and engaging next time around!
 
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Chester
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Sadly, rereading even Law #7 now I see the word "you". I'm glad to see there is really a lot less ambiguity there than it seemed like at the time. Pity we didn't catch it immediately, though.

Yes, a rematch!
 
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