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Odin's Ravens» Forums » General

Subject: Kickstarter in trouble? rss

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Mike Geller
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It seems like the KS project creator has been MIA since about a week after funding ended. He hasn't logged onto BGG since then. He hasn't posted on KS despite many entreaties to do so. Most seriously, the programer he hired to do the iOS app posted the KS comment I've pasted below.

If anyone has any information to share on the whereabouts of Seth Nemec or anyone associated with Works, Ltd., it would be appreciated.

Quote:
Kevin Igoe
on May 21
Hello All!

For those that do not know, I am the one responsible for creating the iOS version of Odin's Ravens. Recently I've had some fellow backers ask me if I know anything about the status of the reprint. Unfortunately I have no inside information on that, and have been unable to reach Seth since about the time he posted his last update here. I believe it is reasonable to be concerned for his well-being at this point, and I will continue to wish him well on getting through his current situation.

I can only make promises about what I can control, so I'll just say that you will be getting your iOS copies no matter what. If I am never able to contact Seth again, I will be in a situation where I do not possess the license required to release a game with this intellectual property and thus will need to find an alternate route to acquire the IP. If there is absolutely no way to do that, we'll have to fall back to good ol' retheming. I will keep you guys up to date on any decisions made regarding these problems.
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Mike DiLisio
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Well this is certainly a shame. It just makes me more thankful for getting the original version (with the superior art, IMO). However, it would really be awful if more people didn't have a chance to play this gem.
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Ryan King
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WTF angry
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Thomas Diener
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Well, thats a shame.
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Josh Chen
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I for one was sorry that I missed the re-print kickstarter....oh boy did I just lucked out? My heart goes out to whoever put down money on this kickstarter.
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Echo W
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Yeah, this is now the second Kickstarter project I've backed where the creator just disappeared. Never. Again. I am so done with KS.
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Bart Brunscheen
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wolfie_beast wrote:
Yeah, this is now the second Kickstarter project I've backed where the creator just disappeared. Never. Again. I am so done with KS.


I've been in almost 50 kicks and all but one has been great. And the one may still work out.

That being said generally there is no rush. A good game will be reprinted. As long as you are patient you can get the game with no risk.

I don't mind a little risk. It's in my job, my investments and my game purchases.
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Ryan Lorence Syfargo
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armed-medic wrote:
wolfie_beast wrote:
Yeah, this is now the second Kickstarter project I've backed where the creator just disappeared. Never. Again. I am so done with KS.


I've been in almost 50 kicks and all but one has been great. And the one may still work out.

That being said generally there is no rush. A good game will be reprinted. As long as you are patient you can get the game with no risk.

I don't mind a little risk. It's in my job, my investments and my game purchases.


Actually, i don't mind the wait, but at least he should update us right?
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Andrés Pérez
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fargy wrote:
armed-medic wrote:
wolfie_beast wrote:
Yeah, this is now the second Kickstarter project I've backed where the creator just disappeared. Never. Again. I am so done with KS.


I've been in almost 50 kicks and all but one has been great. And the one may still work out.

That being said generally there is no rush. A good game will be reprinted. As long as you are patient you can get the game with no risk.

I don't mind a little risk. It's in my job, my investments and my game purchases.


Actually, i don't mind the wait, but at least he should update us right?

Last update from a backer was that he contacted PandaGM, who was listed as the producer in the Risk and Challenges section of the Kickstarter page, and they said that they had not heard from Seth since March and he had not sent them any files or signed a contract with them. So neither the producer of the game nor the producer of the iOS version of the game (a stretch goal) have heard from him since the project funded. He has not logged into BGG and has signed in to Kickstarter only once (in May) since then. His Facebook page and the Odin's Ravens Facebook page have both been deleted and his twitter account has been silent.

It's not just that he has never done an update since the project funded or has answered any emails/GMs from backers. It's that he has fallen off the face of the earth. Either something terrible happened to him, or something annoying happened to us.

I've written it off, myself. In retrospect this is the game I have backed where I did the least amount of due diligence and it has correctly bitten me in the rear. That being said, it was a risk I always understood was part of what Kickstarter offered, so "meh."
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Ser Redtusk
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Yep, I'm another backer. The fact that Seth signed in to his account in May and didn't say anything seems to reinforce the fact that he is fine and has simply scammed us all out of over 20,000 dollars.

First project I ever backed= pie in the face.
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Dan Vore
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I was going to back this but did not have the funds. I hope this works out for everyones. I have not had a KS project with this issue. Best of luck everybody!
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Magnus Ljunggren
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Redtusk wrote:
First project I ever backed= pie in the face.

This was my first kickstarter too and i was really looking forward to playing it.

I hope this project somehow make it, but it certainly doesn't look good right now.
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Ryan Venson
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Well folks, this looks to be dead in the water and Mr Seth Nemec appears to have absconded with $23,000 in donations.

Here's the story best as I can recount it.

Funding for Odin's Ravens ended on March 5th, garnering nearly $23,000. About one week after that, pretty much all traces of Mr Nemec and his project disappeared from the interwebz. He deleted both his personal Facebook page and the Odin's Ravens Facebook page. His accounts on Twitter, Youtube and this site became inactive.

Of course as the time wore on, people tried to contact him through the KS page for status updates on the project. No replies. I managed to hunt down his Google+ account. No reply.

When the company Seth claimed was going to manufacture the product was contacted, they stated "We quoted the project but have not heard back from Seth since early March. The project is not in production at this point (he would need to upload the design files to our FTP site and sign our contract first)."

And, finally, as of today both myself and Charles Rose -- who is probably a bit more active here on the site than myself and, I am quite sure, will corroborate all this if he isn't currently working on a reply at the same time as me -- contacted the artist who was commissioned to do all the artwork for the game. She replied quickly, stating she had, indeed, created all the artwork for Mr Nemec, who had promised to pay her once the campaign was fully funded. Needless to say she saw nary a cent, and has had no interactions with him in the last 3 months.

So, there you have it. Pretty much the nail in the coffin for anybody still holding out hope.

Detestable, really.
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Mike Norris
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Get your "I funded vaporware on kickstarter" microbadge while they last...

I already did.

This is a real shame. My wife was also interested in this game...and that doesn't happen often.
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Tom Rose
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ryanV wrote:
Well folks, this looks to be dead in the water and Mr Seth Nemec appears to have absconded with $23,000 in donations.

Here's the story best as I can recount it.

Funding for Odin's Ravens ended on March 5th, garnering nearly $23,000. About one week after that, pretty much all traces of Mr Nemec and his project disappeared from the interwebz. He deleted both his personal Facebook page and the Odin's Ravens Facebook page. His accounts on Twitter, Youtube and this site became inactive.

Of course as the time wore on, people tried to contact him through the KS page for status updates on the project. No replies. I managed to hunt down his Google+ account. No reply.

When the company Seth claimed was going to manufacture the product was contacted, they stated "We quoted the project but have not heard back from Seth since early March. The project is not in production at this point (he would need to upload the design files to our FTP site and sign our contract first)."

And, finally, as of today both myself and Charles Rose -- who is probably a bit more active here on the site than myself and, I am quite sure, will corroborate all this if he isn't currently working on a reply at the same time as me -- contacted the artist who was commissioned to do all the artwork for the game. She replied quickly, stating she had, indeed, created all the artwork for Mr Nemec, who had promised to pay her once the campaign was fully funded. Needless to say she saw nary a cent, and has had no interactions with him in the last 3 months.

So, there you have it. Pretty much the nail in the coffin for anybody still holding out hope.

Detestable, really.


It's all true. I contacted the artist, as well. She actually told me a few more details in addition to what Ryan has recounted here. She asked me not to share them, but I can tell you Seth is alive.
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Ryan King
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Not for long angry
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The War Chief
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BRING ME THE HEAD OF SETH NEMEC AND RIK FALCH!!!!!!
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Backers need to contact Kickstarter and Amazon Payments at this point. Perhaps they can get some sort of response from him.
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Tom Rose
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Springheeledjack wrote:
Backers need to contact Kickstarter and Amazon Payments at this point. Perhaps they can get some sort of response from him.


Excuse my ignorance, but how will that help? I am willing to pursue any avenue, but the money is long gone at this point. I do not know what recourse Kickstarter or Amazon would have.
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Andy Andersen
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I've got the original. Am I just lucky?
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The War Chief
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BRING ME THE HEAD OF SETH NEMEC AND RIK FALCH!!!!!!
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ctrosejr wrote:
Springheeledjack wrote:
Backers need to contact Kickstarter and Amazon Payments at this point. Perhaps they can get some sort of response from him.


Excuse my ignorance, but how will that help? I am willing to pursue any avenue, but the money is long gone at this point. I do not know what recourse Kickstarter or Amazon would have.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but complete abandonment of a project is one of the few circumstances where KS and AP has an obligation to act.
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Mike Geller
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I think it is possible that law enforcement would take a look at this situation. I think that since he listed himself as from Los Angeles, the LA County District Attorney's office would be the one to contact, probably a consumer fraud division.
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Jason R
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ctrosejr wrote:
Springheeledjack wrote:
Backers need to contact Kickstarter and Amazon Payments at this point. Perhaps they can get some sort of response from him.


Excuse my ignorance, but how will that help? I am willing to pursue any avenue, but the money is long gone at this point. I do not know what recourse Kickstarter or Amazon would have.



According to some backers of another disaster, which shall remain nameless, they were successful in getting refunds through their banks after the project was funded.
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Tom Rose
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jr4417 wrote:
According to some backers of another disaster, which shall remain nameless, they were successful in getting refunds through their banks after the project was funded.


That's great news. Can you PM me with any details you can share so I can follow-up?

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Mike Geller
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Springheeledjack wrote:
ctrosejr wrote:
Springheeledjack wrote:
Backers need to contact Kickstarter and Amazon Payments at this point. Perhaps they can get some sort of response from him.


Excuse my ignorance, but how will that help? I am willing to pursue any avenue, but the money is long gone at this point. I do not know what recourse Kickstarter or Amazon would have.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but complete abandonment of a project is one of the few circumstances where KS and AP has an obligation to act.


I don't think KS will do a thing. From the Terms of Use:

Quote:
Kickstarter is not liable for any damages or loss incurred related to rewards or any other use of the Service. Kickstarter is under no obligation to become involved in disputes between any Users, or between Users and any third party arising in connection with the use of the Service. This includes, but is not limited to, delivery of goods and services, and any other terms, conditions, warranties, or representations associated with campaigns on the Site. Kickstarter does not oversee the performance or punctuality of projects. The Company does not endorse any User Submissions. You release Kickstarter, its officers, employees, agents, and successors in rights from claims, damages, and demands of every kind, known or unknown, suspected or unsuspected, disclosed or undisclosed, arising out of or in any way related to such disputes and the Service.


Also from the Terms of Use:

Quote:
Kickstarter does not offer refunds
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David Hoffman
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First off, I didn't support this Kickstarter campaign, so I apologize for my general lack of information as far as names and dates.

I believe Jason was posting above about the ongoing troubles surrounding Up Front and Airborne in Your Pocket. I won't go into details (there's more than enough to read if one is so inclined) except to say that some backers seemed to be having luck requesting chargebacks from their credit card companies.

Now. I'm not one of those folks -- in for a penny, in for a pound and all that -- but I believe this is more or less what one needs to do in order to get a chargeback from one's credit card company:

1. call your credit card company. This starts the ball rolling. Depending on your company, this may be all you need to do.

2. more than likely, your credit card company is going to insist you request a refund through Amazon Payments. Remember, Kickstarter doesn't do much touching of your money; all the payments go through Amazon. To that end, you'll need to request a refund from Amazon Payments.

3. Amazon Payments will send a refund request to the project originator. Seth, right? Seth will have a certain amount of time to respond to the refund request. If he outright ignores it, this may be the end of your journey; Amazon Payments will potentially refund your money. Note #1: running theory over at UF / AiYP is that the project must be beyond its promised delivery date. Note #2: some folks got their money out of Up Front prior to the promised delivery date. "Allegedly" is a word I'd apply here. Note #3: it seems like ANY response from a project originator is enough to get Amazon Payments to reject your request for a refund.

4. assuming Amazon Payments shot you down, NOW you go back to your credit card company and tell them you've requested your refund from the project originator and were denied. Your credit card company SHOULD issue a chargeback to you now. Depending on the company, they'll probably want some documentation -- emails between you and Amazon Payments, etc. -- and they may outright refund your cash or they may issue a provisional credit. What that means, basically, is they'll credit your credit card while they pursue Amazon Payments / Seth. If they discover you're full of crap, the chargeback will be reversed.

As noted above, I have not gone through this process, but this seems to be what folks are describing, again, more or less, depending on their credit card company and personal level of tenacity in dealing with Amazon Payments, in seeking their funds back from Up Front and / or Airborne in Your Pocket. Hope that helps!
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