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Twilight Imperium (Third Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: imperial strategy card and things having to do with it rss

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Jake Melone
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ok let me get this straight, the person who uses the the primary ability of the imperial strategy card during the strategic action of the Action Phase he flips over a public objective card and recieves two victory points,then its player ones turn again, right?

wouldnt this make the person with the imperial strategy card a huge advantage because along with getting 2 victory points he gets to use secondary abilities and do what everyone else is trying to do which is get more victory points.

i bought this game about a week ago and havent played it yet just been interpreting the rules, i mean is it that easy to obtain victory points if so i think im gonna play with the 14 space side of the victory point track.
 
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Brad Miller
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I think you've pretty much got it. Most folks think it's a bit broken. I suggest using the only worth 1 variant, with all of the objectives displayed at the start.
 
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Jamie Vantries
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First off, try it the right way before jumping on the bandwagon. Second, usually the game goes like this:
the players are seated in a circle A B C D E F
on the first turn,
player A takes ISC, player B takes Initiative
on the second turn,
player B takes ISC, player C takes Initiative
on the third turn,
player C takes ISC, player D takes Initiative etc. etc.

so everyone ends up getting it the same amount of times unless someones got a really devious plan and they chose not to take it.

It works itself out.
 
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Pierre Philippe Goyer
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Hi there...

Well to answer your question, you have to realize that this in fact THE QUESTION concerning TI3 for the last 6 months and answering it quickly is misleading. The only way you will be enlighted with that problem is to read most of the appropriate articles on the geek. I know, you want a real answer, but our opinions are buried into the many other opinions on the geek. You have to read many of them and draw your own conclusion, otherwise what you'll get is our biased opinion of how we like the game to run and this may not suit your taste.

Hope it helps, and no, I will not give you my own opinion.shake

Owll
 
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Barry Figgins
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I'm part of the '2 point ISC is ok' camp. 2 points is a lot, but also, everyone else gets a chance to build with the secondary. If they're smart, it's a chance to build up massive fleets, or essentially get a free Warfare strategy card.

I think the 2 point does work better in a 6-player game, though. It means the points are less likely to be concentrated on one person, and everyone else gets to build and get closer to their objectives. Don't forget that it also means you go last in the round.

If you don't want someone taking Imperial or Initiative, the easiest thing to do is to harass them so that they need to take another card. Force someone to take Diplomacy or Warfare to counter your advance, and you've basically made them waste a turn.

If you dislike it, use a 1 point ISC. The game is self-balancing: if 1 point is too weak, then nobody will choose it, and it will keep getting bonus tokens until it's worthwhile.
 
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Barry Figgins
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The one thing I definitely wouldn't do is start houseruling the game before you play it. Give it at least 2-3 plays before you start houseruling, and don't listen to what people say online. A lot of the common 'problems' aren't really problems at all, but intentional parts of the game's design.
 
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Necessary Evil
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I just got the game yesterday, however I have been following the post since it was released. I do not intend to play without house rules, as I fear the game will never hit the table again (my group is unforgiving and I learned this the hard way with A Game of Thrones, and everything Eagle Games released before Conquest of the Empire).

My plan is to play through a turn or so myself with the original rules to learn the game. Then to compile a list of house rules and test them before I play with the group. I know this will take time but I have yet to read anything positive about the game played as is out of the box. There are more problems than the ISC; fighters, PDF, DN's and the general turtling problem to name a few.

I really wish I had done this before trying AGoT, I feel Mr. Petersen has good ideas for his games but fails to do enough testing to work out the bugs. Either that or we just have completely different ideas about what makes for an entertaining game.

Anyway I would like this to be a success so I think the changes and extra work will be worth it.

-Malloc
 
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Matthew Goddard
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malloc wrote:
My plan is to play through a turn or so myself with the original rules to learn the game. Then to compile a list of house rules and test them before I play with the group. I know this will take time but I have yet to read anything positive about the game played as is out of the box.


My game group found OWL's house rules to be the best so far. After a few games, all the VP scores were very close instead of the person who claims the Imperial card. I think one of the biggest differences is the added VP to the first player who can achieve the public objective.

Cheers.
 
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Jake Melone
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okie dokie thanks for the imput i will definetely try the right way before i play without question and if me and my buddies seem to dislike ill try some other things and play around with it.

thanks once again for the input, i cant wait to play

jake
 
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Mark Reynolds
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I was worried about the ISC also when I got the game. I have played 3 times using the ISC at VP and do not see much of a problem with it as long as you use the Int/ISC idea. I explained the rules to my friends and told them of this way to play the ISC. When you take the Initiative Strategy you then take the Imperial Strategy your next pick. If eveyone does this it works out pretty well. The ISC is used as a time clock.
 
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Barry Figgins
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malloc wrote:
I just got the game yesterday, however I have been following the post since it was released. I do not intend to play without house rules, as I fear the game will never hit the table again (my group is unforgiving and I learned this the hard way with A Game of Thrones, and everything Eagle Games released before Conquest of the Empire).
-Malloc


I would seriously recommend against houseruling the game before it actually hits the table. The game is well-balanced, but much of the balance is subtle and hard to see if you're just reading through the rules and playing solo. Give it a chance.

I know it seems like a lot of people have problems with the ISC, but think of it this way. TI3 has sold more copies than TI, TI2, and all their expansions put together. I believe it may be Fantasy Flight's best-selling game. That's a whole lot of people who are playing the game and having fun with it, and not feeling the need to tell Boardgamegeek they're having a good time. On the other hand, there's maybe 10-15 people who really hate the ISC, but they're a very vocal minority.

Seriously, man, give the game a chance. This is Fantasy Flight's flagship product. They knew what they were doing.
 
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Dave Heberer
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Boy, that escalated quickly. I mean that really got out of hand fast.
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I've only played a 3 player game of this, and I thought it was a really interesting game. I felt that the game basically was thrown out of balance when a player declined to take the 2 VP when they got first pick, and then the next player took it. I took the Init card, and then that player got skipped. And then, I kept the speaker token as no one took the initiative card the next round, so I got to pull the 2 point card two times in a row.

My thoughts on this stuff were:

If someone takes the ISC, that person shouldn't be able to claim a public objective that turn. Since you can only claim one public objective a turn, and you've provided the other players with a new goal, this effective nerfs the card to a 1 point gain on others, but players who are really behind and couldn't have gotten a public objective anyways get 2.

I won't apply house rules to any game that I haven't played a bunch, and doesn't have a clear cut opinion on the geek. I don't see a clear opinion here in the forums, other than ISC is a bit of trickery thrown into a good game. I especially think that 3 players isn't a good set up for this game, as it took until the final round of the game before people could really attack one another. I'm hoping to try again with 5 and see how the rules work as they stand.
 
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John Cataldo
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Having played only twice, once with rules as printed and once with a minorly modified ISC, I'd at least say this: Don't change anything besides the ISC for the first play, and change it very little.

Some people dislike the fact that the right picks for Strategy Cards are almost always ISC followed by Initiative. However, many people rightly point out that this isn't really gamebreaking, especially if you tell people up front.

The real problem for me is that it gives an unfair advantage to the players who go first. There are various solutions for this problem (including special setups to decide who goes first or auctions, etc.)

The rule that we played with most recently and seemed to work out quite well was "The person taking the ISC and the holder of Mecatol Rex each get one point". This increased interaction (Mecatol Rex becomes a huge hotbed, and taking it for one or two turns is a big deal), and plenty of people (including the winner!) passed over the ISC sometimes to take other Strategy cards. That was the only change we played with, and I thought it went quite well.

Other individual complaints about ship imbalance (fighters vs. DNs or whatever) are really much more minor in my mind. If you feel you must change the rules to make the game acceptable for your play group, I'd really just try to fix the ISC and leave everything else as is. Even if some things are imbalanced slightly, you'll simply not notice it much the first time playing.
 
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Brian Newman
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Okay, malloc, since you've never read anything positive about the game as played out of the box, I'll reiterate what I've posted before and you've missed:

My group played it as written out of the box and had lots of fun with it. Next time, I think we'll play with the ISC 1/MecRex 1 rule, but that's not to fix any problem we had with the game, just to encourage some strategies that we prefer.

I think the other possible rule that wouldn't unbalance the game much is simply to say that no one can choose either Initiative or Imperial two turns in a row.
 
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