Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
8 Posts

Tower of Babel» Forums » Variants

Subject: 5 Player Card Reduction Variant rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Eric Sanders
United States
Greendale
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't want to take credit for this, but thought it was worth posting in the Variants area in case people don't read through all the session reports.

I have very limited play experience with the game right now (I hope to play some more tonight), but many people have commented that you accumulate cards in the 5 player game and Marshall P.(mdp4828) had a fine suggestion:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/93706

"The rules say that when you play the advanced game (with the dual color chips) that you remove the 5 point single color chips. Doing this maintains the average chip cost at 4.5 since the dual colors all require 5 cards themselves. But I wonder what would happen if instead of replacing the 5 pointers you replaced the 4’s or even the 3’s. That would tend to increase the average number of cards removed and perhaps balance things a little better. Though it would make things harder to build in the beginning. It’s something I’ll think about trying."


So, if people do try it, maybe they can comment on it here! If we play with 5 tonight I think I'll swap the duals in for the 3's...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew M
United States
New Haven
Connecticut
flag msg tools
admin
8/8 FREE, PROTECTED
badge
513ers Assemble!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I doubt that will be enough. Doing that will remove 8 cards from the game, however the extra player introduces an extra card per turn. I think it is safe to say that there will be at least 15 turns in a game, meaning you are still playing with 7 more cards than usual - which is a significant number.

My suggestion is to have the new active player not draw a card on his turn - thus, other than the starting cards, there are the same number of cards in the game as in a 4 player game.

-MMM
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Allen Doum
United States
Orange County
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mathew -

You seem to be suggesting that a player not take a card just before his turn. If you really want to cut down the number of cards, wouldn't it be better (simpler) to say that a player only draws a card in his own turn if he passes? Perhaps to still draw 2 if he passes, and none if he doesn't.

Personally, I am disinclined to mess with the math in a Knizia game.

The idea of replacing the 3s or one of the 4s with the split tokens will increase the total needed of each to 29 or 28 cards of each type, instead of the current 27, to end the game. Not much of an effect, and would have greater effect in the opening turns.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marshall P.
United States
Wichita
Kansas
flag msg tools
"Nothing in Biology Makes Sense Except in the Light of Evolution" - Theodosius Dobzhansky
badge
There is grandeur in this view of life, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
That's a good idea matthew. Let us know what you find out tonight Eric.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew M
United States
New Haven
Connecticut
flag msg tools
admin
8/8 FREE, PROTECTED
badge
513ers Assemble!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
AllenDoum wrote:
Mathew -

You seem to be suggesting that a player not take a card just before his turn. If you really want to cut down the number of cards, wouldn't it be better (simpler) to say that a player only draws a card in his own turn if he passes? Perhaps to still draw 2 if he passes, and none if he doesn't.


That would have a similar effect - but again, this is only needed in 5 player games.

Quote:

Personally, I am disinclined to mess with the math in a Knizia game.


As am I, as anyone who reads the bulk of my posts could attest. Evenso, I feel that some change is warrented for 5-player Tower of Babel. It is too common for someone to be able to finish their own disc with no help by the end of the game. Yes, that gives others VP for their offers, but as they will all be offering the maximum as well there is little difference in accepting one of theirs (you can almost never accept more than one by endgame as everyone is offering so many) or just building it yourself. The decision tree collapses when it shouldn't.

Perhaps there's something about 5-player that I don't get, but that's the impetus for trying to capture the 3 or 4-player feel with 5 players.

-MMM
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Sanders
United States
Greendale
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Well, we had 7 people last night, so we played a standard 4-player game of ToB first (with the other 3 playing Ra) and then one 5 player later when "the weak" did things like go home and sleep.

After discussing the suggested change, some players wanted to swap out 4's instead of 3's - so that's what we did - and there were still "too many" cards in people's hands as the game went on. Most players seemed to agree that swapping out the 3's would be slightly better next time.

After seeing the play with 4's removed I think Matthew is right in that even swapping 3's isn't going to "fix" the problem. I think it's a lighter change that helps a bit if some players oppose the "don't draw at the end of your active turn" option that really would make card availability more like the 4 player game.

Removing the easy 3's and replacing them with 3/2's may have a harsher effect on games where the players play more defensively (not helping complete tasks as much) than we saw with our more cooperative, perhaps newbie, play. For us the 3/2's were fairly easy to complete early on, and I know that need not be true depending on your opponents.

As we try this a few more times I'll try to comment on what we see, but I think this change is certainly playable and somewhat effective in it's goal.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Nelson
United States
Draper
Utah
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Next 5-player game I play I will negate the draw two cards on your turn when passing ability (only 1 instead) and zero cards at end of turn if not passing. The problem with too many cards came into play with my games. I loved the game with 3 or 4, played it quite often. Then one 5 player game, and everyone didn't like it anymore, even at 3-4 player. I'll have to try this to get them back into the game. Thanks for the work on this.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Sanders
United States
Greendale
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
This is definitely a very good game that you should try to get people back into!

I keep getting different groups of players when this hits the table, and I'm always loathe to change rules for a newbie (then they go play it somewhere else and say "that's not how I learned it!").

We've been swapping 3/2's for 3's in a few plays - and as already pointed out, it isn't enough.

I'll continue to push for the card draw reduction plan - but doubt I'll have many results to post soon (too many games, too little time!).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.