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Subject: Question re: losing/gaining citizens rss

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Nick Fisk
United Kingdom
Stoke on Trent
Staffordshire
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We played this just last night (5p and I got royally screwed ... had two cities destroyed), and this is how we play it:

1) You have this right. If it's a blue majority, then the person with more blue gets a single citizen from a neighbour.

2) You seem to have this wrong.

In the case of a tie (blue/black), it only really makes a difference if the neighbours each have a majority in one each of the colours.

ie, If player A had the majority in both blue and black, he chooses one (it doesn't really matter which) and takes a citizen. On Player B's turn, he doesn't lose one (just like example 1 above)

But .... If Player A has a blue majority and player B has a black majority, then Player A will choose blue and take a guy, then player B can choose black and take him back!

Empty buildings don't get destroyed until the end of the migration, so you player B can have a building sit empty after A has taken a citizen, until his turn when he gets him back.

Of course, if player B has a black majority, he may choose blue (and not gain or lose a citizen) if he is a bit short of food.

I hope that helps

N.

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Werner Bär
Germany
Karlsruhe
Baden
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A short answer: When you play the migration in player order, people only move to to active player, never away.
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Jeremiah Lee
United States
Alameda
California
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dcjackso wrote:

1) One attraction is in the majority (e.g., Health).
In this case, players simply compare Health "points" across bordering cities, and citizens migrate accordingly. In other words, player order during the migration phase does not matter. (If Player A has more Health points than Player B, one of Player B's citizens will migrate to Player A's city. It is NOT the case that Player A will first calculate migration from Player B's city based on Health points, following by Player B losing ANOTHER citizen when he calculates migration with the same bordering city owned by Player A.)

Is this correct?


Correct, although migration should always be done in player order. If the city cannot take any additional citizens, the citizen will die. Then when another player takes a citizen, it might cause a building to be unmanned, and come off the board. Which order the migration occurs in creates this situation, so player order is very important.

dcjackso wrote:

The second possibility:
2) The people cry out equally for two attractions (e.g., Health and Culture). In this case, we have been playing that player order during the migration does matter (in fact, I got creamed in a game tonight multiple times by such ties). Say Player A (in all of these examples, please assume that Player A is seated such that they play before Player B) leads Player B in both Health and Culture. When determining migration, Player A chooses Health and nabs one of Player B's citizens. When Player B determines migration to his cities, he must choose either Health or Culture (and this decision holds for all attraction comparisons bordering that particular city of Player B.) No matter what Player B chooses, he will lose ANOTHER citizen to Player A.

Is this correct?


During your turn, you can only GAIN citizens, you cannot lose them. You still need to go in player order here.
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BibKamp318
Belgium
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The key word of the "Attraction Phase" is Attraction

A player can only attract citizens from another player.
When you as a player are evaluating whether or not you will attract citizens from cities from other players, you can only attract and can NOT loose a citizin.
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Jeremiah Lee
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dcjackso wrote:
Nick, you state that buildings don't get demolished until the end of the migration phase. Jeremiah, I believe you are suggesting that player order during migration is extremely important (it certainly was in my last game!) because loss of a lone citizen on a building tile might have repercussions DURING the migration phase (i.e., demolishment, followed by possible loss of food, loss of points for migrations during following players' turns, etc.


I'm sorry I wasn't quite clear, now that I reread my post from this morning. Nick is correct in that the buildings don't go away until the end of the migration phase. But going in turn order for the migration is important, as illustrated below.

Scenario:

Player 1's city has 5 people in it. No market, no fountain or bath house. He has 2 health arches, and 0 of culture and education.

Player 2's city has 5 people in it. No market, no fountain or bath house. He has 2 culture arches, 0 of education or health.

The cities are within 3 hexes of each other.
The voice of the people is: 2 culture, 2 health.

Player 1 steals first, but because his city is already maxxed out on citizens, the citizen that he steals, dies. Player 1 has 5 citizens, Player 2 has 4 citizens now.

Then Player 2 steals from Player 1, and because player 2 is no longer maxxed, that citizen lives, leaving Player 2 with 5, and player 1 with 4.

Assuming that the migration is finished, Player 1 will have to demolish a building if he has 5 buildings.

Q&A (sorry, I don't have time right now to go through your scenario):

dcjackso wrote:
1) There are no "stacking limits" on cities, assuming the population-increase support buildings (market, fountain, bathhouse) are built. Correct?


My reading of this question is that you're asking whether there is a maximum number of "idle" citizens you can have in your city, and the answer is no, there is no maximum number of idle citizens.

dcjackso wrote:
2) We have played that a player may build a fountain and/or bathhouse, in order to gain service points in Health, BEFORE building a market. However, that player does NOT receive the population step-increase until he also builds a market in that city. Correct/reasonable?


Correct.

dcjackso wrote:
3) Do any of you play with the Casadonte (sp?) variant, in which the card-drafting mechanism is changed? I don't have a feel yet for whether, IMO, the cards get "stale" or not. Any other changes/variants you folks have made that make La Citta a better game?


I haven't played with the variant. The group I usually play with plays pretty strict rules on every game we play.

dcjackso wrote:
4) The master builder card (if I remember correctly; don't have the game in front of me) allows you to build buildings of 0/1, 2, and 3 attraction points for 1, 2, and 4 gold respectively. However, one of the (very well done) English-language player aids we were using has the prices listed as 1, 2, and 3 gold (which actually makes more sense to me--4 gold is a lot in this game). Misprint on the cards, or the player aid? (We played that the card was correct.)


Card is correct. Master builder is an advantage for you in that you don't have to use one of your action cards and you get to choose which building you want; you pay a premium for the building opportunity.

dcjackso wrote:
5) Our group's impression after one 3P and one 4P game is that we enjoyed 3P MUCH more. With 4P there was migration on the first turn, and there were so many migration battles imminent each turn that in became very difficult to track and predict the outcome of service point "battles" in all areas for all cities.


This is one of the things that I actually really like about the game. I like the chaos that can result from TOO much migration. The one thing about 4 player that is tough is that it is hard for all 4 players to build additional cities. I haven't played the game 3 player, though so I don't have any good take on that.

Wish I were getting a game of it in soon!
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