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Subject: Is anyone else bothered with the image on the KAL 007 card? rss

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Chris Flynn
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Looking at the image of real people caught in a moment of overwhelming grief just seems a little insensitive to include this photo in a boardgame. I understand the historical significance of the event and the image does convey the monstrosity of the Russian jets shooting down a commercial airliner...but still. Love the game, won't stop playing because of this, but I had to share my thoughts.
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Tim Thorp
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Re: Is anyone else bothered with the image on the KAL 007 ca
I have not seen it. I hate to ask but, besides buying the game, is there any way I can see the image?
 
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Thomas Eastside, Esq.
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Nope, doesn't bother me. But I had seen it before because it had been run in the newspapers.
 
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Brian Morris
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Re: Is anyone else bothered with the image on the KAL 007 ca
The photo used is a rather famous photo taken at the time. It ran in just about every newspaper. I think it shows the effect the killing of the innocent people on that flight had on the families. I see no need to sugar coat the event and it's effects.
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Steve Bernhardt
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irishalum1989 wrote:
Looking at the image of real people caught in a moment of overwhelming grief just seems a little insensitive to include this photo in a boardgame. I understand the historical significance of the event and the image does convey the monstrosity of the Russian jets shooting down a commercial airliner...but still. Love the game, won't stop playing because of this, but I had to share my thoughts.


Yes, I had the same thought. Famous picture or not, I think it was a rather poor choice.
 
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Philip Thomas
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The board game depicts a brutal conflict between two superpowers, one of whom was involved in mass slaughter of its own people, and both of whom sponsored repressive regimes around the world. The threat of nuclear annihilation is always present. Really I think the ship has sailed on portraying upsetting events!

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Jonathan
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Interesting debate. I can see arguements both ways. I'll be watching this thread in the future to see what other points fellow BGG members raise.
 
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Tim McCarron
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Some might find it offensive or insensitive. Sort of like Baskin Robbins - 31 flavors, everyone has their likes and dislikes

But what would you have the art producer do?
Be politically correct in a political wargame?

I find that solution (putting the tradgedy itself aside for a moment) to be ironically funny to say the least
 
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Troy Adlington
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Re: Is anyone else bothered
No I'm not bothered by it. I've played wargames since I was 8, and I have never tried to lose sight of the fact that what I am simulating is violent, scary, and inhumane in its actual execution.

War (and by its extension politics) is an intensely interesting field of human endeavour. But don't kid yourself, Man has shown incredible resourcefulness in creating new ways to kill, humiliate and torture his fellows.

Just because this newest generation forgets that life isn't like Halo and people don't get up from a shot to the head, doesn't mean we should hold back on the truth of what we are talking about in any simulation of real historical events.

So to summate, I am not bothered by it, rather I am bouyed that a nation state that could do such a thing due to intrinsic fear, institutional brutality and cultural paranioa was brought down by the very people it most persecuted. It's own.

yours,

Troy

PS As a corollary I find the opinions of those that feel the mention of the word Slaves in "Struggle of Empires" to be distasteful to be similairly opaque.




 
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Steve Bernhardt
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travillaintim wrote:
Some might find it offensive or insensitive. Sort of like Baskin Robbins - 31 flavors, everyone has their likes and dislikes

But what would you have the art producer do?
Be politically correct in a political wargame?

I find that solution (putting the tradgedy itself aside for a moment) to be ironically funny to say the least


I'm not particularily offended by the picture, I just think that the pic chosen wasn't the best choice. If I or my family were caught on film grieving, I wouldn't like it to become a part of a game. I'm not sure why this is a hard concept, or how that is "politically correct."

I find political jingoism far more distasteful, as you cant have a meaningful discussion about anything in the USA anymore, without getting labeled somehow.
 
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Troy Adlington
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Re: Is anyone else bothered with the image on the KAL 007 ca
I encounter that alot when I am in the States. The lack of healthy cynicism, and the instant labelling of dissent to whatever you're told as being un-american is disturbing to say the least. It worries me. Anyways back to serious gaming!
 
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David Wilson
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Is it any more offensive than the picture of Jack Ruby shooting Oswald that exists?


David "the preacher" Wilson
 
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Dan Dolan
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I find any picture of Ted Kennedy to be offensive.

Does that count inthis debate?
 
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Jason Matthews
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wargamer66 wrote:


I find political jingoism far more distasteful, as you cant have a meaningful discussion about anything in the USA anymore, without getting labeled somehow.


Steve, I find your lack of faith in our political system suspicious, and un-American. I trust the NSA is already monitoring your posts.
 
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Jason Matthews
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For what it's worth, which is admittedly not much now that the game is published, my mock up of the game used a picture of a KAL jet off of their website. Of course, Mark's choice is a more famous photo, and also is in the public domaine, which may have also impacted the choice.

I am curious though. I was tempted to recommend this photo for Quagmire



Obviously, it is no less tragic than the suffering in the KAL photo, and perhaps considerably worse. On the other hand, it is surely one of the most evocative photos of the war. And, it breaks my heart whenever I see it.

Anyway, I am interested to know what those who are concerned about the KAL photo would have thought if this had made it into the game.
 
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Philip Thomas
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That photo would have made me feel uncomfortable. Not sure why it does, and the Kal 007 image doesn't, but I'm glad you didn't include it.
 
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Re: Is anyone else bothered with the image on the KAL 007 ca
Before I found this thread, I had independently given the Kal 007 card more than a sidelong glance for all of the obvious reasons. It is apparent that the photo doesn't serve any game purpose and therefore is a component of the theme, of which Twilight Struggle positively oozes. Whether including the picture was in good taste or not is purely a subjective matter and therefore does not have a right or wrong answer. My opinion is that the picture serves as a reminder, and reminders are never bad.
 
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Stokey Brown
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Re: Is anyone else bothered with the image on the KAL 007 ca
It's difficult to respond to the alternate Quagmire photo now that it comes at the tail end of this discussion. Had I just opened the game, unsealed the cards and meandered through them, I think the above picture on the Quagmire card would have evoked a stronger response from me than Kal 007, but I think I would have ultimately found no problem with it. On the other hand, the Quagmire card works thematically as-is, and I think either would have gotten the job done and had little impact on the game's over-all popularity (I could be wrong though; I have pretty thick skin when it comes to these kinds of things).

For a lot of gamers, wargames serve as a sort of interactive history, and I can appreciate the idea of the designer wanting to remind his or her audience of the actualities of war. Remember that a wargame is, at least on some level, a simulation of murder, and I don't believe that there is anything wrong with reminding its players of that fact any more than it's "wrong" to play one in the first place. Obviously, however, everyone has their own boundaries and what is in good taste will always be a matter of opinion.
 
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