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Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » Strategy

Subject: HWK290 vs Ywings rss

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It does seem that the fear of the Ywing being rendered obsolete by the Mouldy Crow is coming true after all. Consider the following:

>> Both ships are able to use the ion turret. The Blaster Turret, while being able to be used by both ships, is arguably much better on the HWK290, since it has the option of crew upgrades, which lets you slap on the recon specialist to help make your life easier when attempting to use the blaster turret

>> The Ywing has more hp in exchange for 1 agility. The HWK290 has about the same defensive stats as an Xwing, making it slightly more survivable under most general circumstances.

>> No idea about the maneuver dials, but since the HWK290 is supposedly pretty maneuverable, I do not have much confidence that the Ywing would excel the HWK290 in this specific area of discussion.

>> The options that comes with the crews are arguably better than the astromechs. Compare/contrast R2D2 or R5D8 against Chewbacca (remember that the Ywing only has forward 1 & 2 as greens). On top of that you have the option of Weapon Specialist to help conserve actions / do TL + F combos vs Ywing's R5K6, and the other astromech options doesnt seem to offer as much as the other misc crew options.

>> HWK290s have easy access to elite pilot talent upgrades. none of the Ywings have that.

>> The Ywing has slots for torps, 2 in fact, but i highly doubt that it would be a major consideration when comparing between both ships, given how both are supposed to belong to the "supportive" side of the squadron. You could put advanced torps on the Ywing and make it a sort of battle-mage i suppose, but i do not think that would be the main usage of the Ywing, especially with the Xwing and the upcoming Bwing.

>> Supportive effects wise, the Ywing only has Dutch Vander, vs 3 named HWK290 pilots. They are all rather equally good in their own ways, so the only issue here would be the variety i suppose. Horton is notoriously difficult to use though, mostly due to his extremely high cost at 25pts. and that he has no elite pilot talent slots.

>> If comparing naked ships, the basic Ywing would be a lot more useful than the HWK290. Give both either the ion or blaster turrets, suddenly the HWK290 and Ywing are roughly at the same level, except that the HWK290 is more likely to survive for a longer period of time, and that it costs considerably lesser points than the Ywing.


Thoughts?
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Duraham wrote:
It does seem that the fear of the Ywing being rendered obsolete by the Mouldy Crow is coming true after all. Consider the following:

>> Both ships are able to use the ion turret. The Blaster Turret, while being able to be used by both ships, is arguably much better on the HWK290, since it has the option of crew upgrades, which lets you slap on the recon specialist to help make your life easier when attempting to use the blaster turret

>> The Ywing has more hp in exchange for 1 agility. The HWK290 has about the same defensive stats as an Xwing, making it slightly more survivable under most general circumstances.

>> No idea about the maneuver dials, but since the HWK290 is supposedly pretty maneuverable, I do not have much confidence that the Ywing would excel the HWK290 in this specific area of discussion.

>> The options that comes with the crews are arguably better than the astromechs. Compare/contrast R2D2 or R5D8 against Chewbacca (remember that the Ywing only has forward 1 & 2 as greens). On top of that you have the option of Weapon Specialist to help conserve actions / do TL + F combos vs Ywing's R5K6, and the other astromech options doesnt seem to offer as much as the other misc crew options.

>> HWK290s have easy access to elite pilot talent upgrades. none of the Ywings have that.

>> The Ywing has slots for torps, 2 in fact, but i highly doubt that it would be a major consideration when comparing between both ships, given how both are supposed to belong to the "supportive" side of the squadron. You could put advanced torps on the Ywing and make it a sort of battle-mage i suppose, but i do not think that would be the main usage of the Ywing, especially with the Xwing and the upcoming Bwing.

>> Supportive effects wise, the Ywing only has Dutch Vander, vs 3 named HWK290 pilots. They are all rather equally good in their own ways, so the only issue here would be the variety i suppose. Horton is notoriously difficult to use though, mostly due to his extremely high cost at 25pts. and that he has no elite pilot talent slots.

>> If comparing naked ships, the basic Ywing would be a lot more useful than the HWK290. Give both either the ion or blaster turrets, suddenly the HWK290 and Ywing are roughly at the same level, except that the HWK290 is more likely to survive for a longer period of time, and that it costs considerably lesser points than the Ywing.


Thoughts?

Y-Wings don't screan "Shoot me first!"

A HWK with a turret would, at least to me. Jan Ors is the scariest of the bunch and when I fly her, I plan to keep her as far away from the fighting as possible. That means no turret at all. If she dies, her extra dice goes away and that extra dice for someone elses attack is the ONLY reason she is on the board. Nein Numb is great for her, even without seeing the dials.
 
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then my question for you would be if your opponent's named HWK290 does not have a turret on, would you take it out first or leave it for last?
 
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Jeff Dunford
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Duraham wrote:
>> Both ships are able to use the ion turret. The Blaster Turret, while being able to be used by both ships, is arguably much better on the HWK290, since it has the option of crew upgrades, which lets you slap on the recon specialist to help make your life easier when attempting to use the blaster turret


Garven and Dutch (w/ Blaster Turret) are still BFF's... although I'm still not convinced the Blaster is better than Dutch (w/ Ion Cannon)... although it is a point cheaper.
 
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yeah, with the ion cannons you will be attacking with targetlock + focus, which is pretty much a guaranteed ionized hit.
 
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Michael Ptak
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Blaster cannons offer more than one point of damage with the possibility of crits, and a 360 degree firing arc. The only problem with them is needing a focus to use.
 
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Duraham wrote:
then my question for you would be if your opponent's named HWK290 does not have a turret on, would you take it out first or leave it for last?

It depends on which HWK it was. Jan Ors? Hell yes, but their offensive elements will get free reign to ravage my forces while I gun for Jan Ors. Having an A-Wing at 22 points being able to do TL + Focus + Boost + R1 4 attack dice is SCARY. I don't care who you are.

If it was someone else like Garnet or the other guy, then no. PS12 doesn't add that much to offensive capabilities and Focus tokens, while useful, aren't that vital *most of the time*. Being able to do a TL+Focus on a R1 rookie is really powerful, but I would sooner shoot at the rookie than that other HWK pilot that hands out focus tokens. Getting rid of the damage producer is more effective in the short and long term than getting rid of the guy that hands out focus tokens.

Now, if the other HWK pilot had a blaster turret, then his offensive capabilities would be increased, but his chances of handing out a focus token to someone else would be near zero since he needs a focus for both shooting and modifying. His support capabilities go down and he becomes a weaker Y-Wing since he has fewer hit points.
 
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Jeff Dunford
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Norsehound wrote:
Blaster cannons offer more than one point of damage with the possibility of crits, and a 360 degree firing arc. The only problem with them is needing a focus to use.


And that's a huge problem. For one, if you can only take one action (Focus), the chances of hitting are slim with 3 attack dice and no modifiers against most defenders (except very low agility targets like Y-wings, YT-1300s and Shuttles). Second, if you crash or are stressed or otherwise lose your action for the turn, you can't use your Blaster Turret (!). You can always use your Ion Cannon ... well, unless you take a crit that says otherwise, but that would affect a Blaster, too.
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iNano78 wrote:

And that's a huge problem. For one, if you can only take one action (Focus), the chances of hitting are slim with 3 attack dice and no modifiers against most defenders (except very low agility targets like Y-wings, YT-1300s and Shuttles). Second, if you crash or are stressed or otherwise lose your action for the turn, you can't use your Blaster Turret (!). You can always use your Ion Cannon ... well, unless you take a crit that says otherwise, but that would affect a Blaster, too.

This is my main gripe with the turret. I could maybe see using it as a Dutch + Gold combo, but that would be a rare case where I don't want dual Ion cannons.
 
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there's also DarkCurse, who laughs at your puny turret
 
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Your basic assumption is that they are equally maneuverable. We have no idea if that's true. Maybe the HWK is a nimble lil kestrel. Maybe it's a lumbering snail. Maybe it's the A-Wing of support vessels. Perhaps it makes the Y-Wing look like a pinnacle of agility.

Until we see the maneuver dial, it's going to be really hard to tell which is better. Frankly even then, until we play a few rounds with different lists it's gonna be tough.
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Hexis wrote:
Your basic assumption is that they are equally maneuverable. We have no idea if that's true. Maybe the HWK is a nimble lil kestrel. Maybe it's a lumbering snail. Maybe it's the A-Wing of support vessels. Perhaps it makes the Y-Wing look like a pinnacle of agility.

Until we see the maneuver dial, it's going to be really hard to tell which is better. Frankly even then, until we play a few rounds with different lists it's gonna be tough.


to be honest, i cannot imagine how it would get any less maneuverable than the Ywing, no matter what. Currently all ships have access to a natural white hard 2, and the full range of speed 2 maneuvers, and i cant really see how that would likely change with the wave 3 ships.
 
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Creed Buhallin
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The Y-wing is going to be considerably more durable, even with the lower agility. With only one shield, the HWK is going to be eating crits in no time. I know a lot of players tend to undervalue crits, but I frequently see them changing the outcome of games.

If you're asking which named pilot is better support, I think that depends entirely on what you're trying to support. With the new missile options in Wave 3, I think Dutch is going to continue to be valuable. If you're asking which is better in a primary combat role... Did anyone ever actually use Y-wings in a primary combat role??
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Personally I don't think the HWK is going to overcome my love of Dutch Vander.

Tossing those Target Locks around like candy is a major part of my game.
 
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Buhallin wrote:
The Y-wing is going to be considerably more durable, even with the lower agility. With only one shield, the HWK is going to be eating crits in no time. I know a lot of players tend to undervalue crits, but I frequently see them changing the outcome of games.

If you're asking which named pilot is better support, I think that depends entirely on what you're trying to support. With the new missile options in Wave 3, I think Dutch is going to continue to be valuable. If you're asking which is better in a primary combat role... Did anyone ever actually use Y-wings in a primary combat role??


I like to fly Ywings without ions every now and then. Maybe not for competitions, but for casual games things like Horton + R2astro + 2 torps is actually very offensive. Imagine a gold Ywing with 2 advanced torps and proper support, that thing would be brutal against pretty much anything at range 1

there was also the hope that the new turret would let the Ywing perform a different role, but after seeing how bad the actual turret is, nah.... not gonna happen.
 
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so consider the case of Garnet + ions vs Grey Ywing + ions. The Ywing costs 25 points, and the HWK290 costs 24 points. Both have the same PS, and manueverability isnt too big an issue due to the 360 deg arc. But for 1 point less you get an effect with Garnet. putting the Ywing fetish aside, it is obvious the HWK290 would be the better choice in most builds
 
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Duraham wrote:
so consider the case of Garnet + ions vs Grey Ywing + ions. The Ywing costs 25 points, and the HWK290 costs 24 points. Both have the same PS, and manueverability isnt too big an issue due to the 360 deg arc. But for 1 point less you get an effect with Garnet. putting the Ywing fetish aside, it is obvious the HWK290 would be the better choice in most builds

2 fewer shields and 1 fewer hull too.
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