Recommend
4 
 Thumb up
 Hide
9 Posts

The Guns of Gettysburg» Forums » Rules

Subject: Inevitable first game questions rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Matt Thrower
United Kingdom
Bath
Somerset
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So the Confederates won tonight, after what looked like a doomed attack actually managed to turn the Union left flank, allowing easy capture of two objectives. The third was far bloodier, but fell eventually.

But did we play it right? Some questions:

- The biggest one we had concerned artillery over obstructed terrain. If we understand correctly, a bombarding unit that's firing over an obstruction either opposite its position or opposite the target position, cannot fire. However, no such stricture applies to the defender?

If this is correct it makes attacking across obstructions basically suicidal, and renders the town of Gettysburg a superb defensive position for the Union. It's hard to see why the Union player wouldn't simply anchor his defensive line there and try to move objectives behind it.

- In a multi-hour turn, multiple units can enter as reinforcements along a road. But the "first" unit that would have done so doesn't get any bonus march movement for being first?

This does seem to be correct, but we found the result was that Union reinforcements got bunched up, and then caught in Confederate fields of fire, thus being unable to move without a withdrawal order.

- When attacking there's no upper limit to the number of artillery tokens the attacker can play, so long as one qualifying unit is part of the units moving to attack, and the other qualifying units are adjacent or once removed, correct?

Oh, and a warning to fellow owners:

- If you drip beer on sticker side of the blocks, let them dry naturally. Wiping them when wet ruins the edges of the stickers Thanks for those spares, Mercury!
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephen Rochelle
United States
Huntsville
Alabama
flag msg tools
Fisher's back!
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The Union win only by fully controlling all 3 objectives, so you gave the CSA too much to do.

Attacking artillery is restricted by obstructed terrain, defensive is less so. However, the Union can't concentrate the objectives too tightly because of their minimum separation requirement. Additionally, the CSA can simply surround an objective or otherwise cut its communication line to win if the Union bunch too much.

For a multi-hour turn, see "When blocks can move twice in a turn".

No upper bound to tokens played, but only 3 points of fire per position count.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
richard sivel
Germany
berlin
Unspecified
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mb
Quote:
The biggest one we had concerned artillery over obstructed terrain. If we understand correctly, a bombarding unit that's firing over an obstruction either opposite its position or opposite the target position, cannot fire. However, no such stricture applies to the defender?


When I understand correctly, you're talking about a situation where the defender is in Gettysburg, while the attacker comes from the outside. Each Gettysburg position is fully obstructed.

I assume that you are not using the advanced rules for fully obstructed postions, correct?

I read point 2 of the attack procedure ("A token can be played in a position only if ... (3) at least one attacking block's path crosses an area in the artillery's field of fire.") in such a way that a unit in Gettysburg cannot fire with artillery to the outside since it has an obstructed terrain symbol on the front side of its own position (see rule 9, pg. 5, 2nd column, first dot)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Josh Luub
United States
San Jose
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
MattDP wrote:
- In a multi-hour turn, multiple units can enter as reinforcements along a road. But the "first" unit that would have done so doesn't get any bonus march movement for being first?

This does seem to be correct, but we found the result was that Union reinforcements got bunched up, and then caught in Confederate fields of fire, thus being unable to move without a withdrawal order.

I think you have this backwards? One unit per hour can use reinforcement movement to enter on the road. For each hour in the turn after the unit enters, it can march additional steps (1 or 2, depending on if you are first player or second player). But! Don't forget that you can only use these additional steps if the unit ends its move in the same position as, or adjacent to, another friendly block (regardless of whether it entered that turn). A unit which enters using reinforcement entry movement on the last hour of the turn can't do any additional march movement.

Quote:
- When attacking there's no upper limit to the number of artillery tokens the attacker can play, so long as one qualifying unit is part of the units moving to attack, and the other qualifying units are adjacent or once removed, correct?

You can play a maximum of 2 tokens per position (true for attacker and defender). (There is no limit on the number of tokens played) The tokens can have a total value of more than 3, but only 3 points per position can be used.

At least, that's how I read it!

Edit: My bad, I was looking at an older version of the rules.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Fristrom
United States
Watertown
Unspecified
flag msg tools
squonk wrote:


You can play a maximum of 2 tokens per position (true for attacker and defender). The tokens can have a total value of more than 3, but only 3 points per position can be used.


Not quite right. The defender is indeed restricted to 2 tokens per position, but the attacker has no such restriction. Though as you say, there is no point to the attacker playing more than 3 points of artillery per position, since nothing over 3 counts. (And of course, the attacker is required to expend at least 1 token per attacking block, though they are allowed to expend (with no effects) tokens without playing them as artillery.

As far as the question of obstructed terrain goes, here is how it works (in all cases, I'm only talking about obstructions that are in the "front" of the position):

1) Attacking artillery cannot be placed in a position with an obstruction in front of it (see rule for attacking artillery: "The artillery position cannot be obstructed on the side nearer the target position, ...")

2) Attacking artillery cannot target a defending position that has an obstruction (to continue the rules quote, "... and the target position cannot be obstructed on the side nearer the artillery position."

3) Defensive artillery cannot be placed in a position with an obstruction in front of it (because defensive artillery can only be placed if "at least one attacking block's path crosses an area in an artillery's field of fire," and the rules for field of fire state a "block has no field of fire at all if there is an obstructed terrain symbol on the front side of its own position.")

4) Defensive artillery doesn't care if there is an obstruction at the attacker's position, because it targets the attacker's path as it moves through an area, not the attacker's position.

So in the case of attacking a position that has an obstruction (e.g. attacking into Gettysburg), the attacker won't be able to target the defender's position, and the defender won't be able play defensive artillery at that position. However, the defender may be able to play defensive artillery at other positions if they are unobstructed and have a field of fire on the attacker's path, and the attacker may be able to play artillery to target this artillery. But typically attacks on obstructed terrain won't have any artillery played on either side.

So while you are safe from attacking artillery, you often won't be able to use any defensive artillery, so it seems something of a wash for defense -- you will often be able to hold attacking Confederates to a tie (assuming the obstruction is on both sides, giving the -1 to the attack), for a step loss on both sides. But it's fairly cheap in tokens to attack, and since Confederate formations tend to have more depth (e.g. have more 2-step replacements), after a few turns they should be able to prevail. With a good ridge position, assuming it is well supported by artillery, the Confederates will have to burn through a lot of tokens to have a chance; the fact that the defenders gets to keep their artillery (unless it is hit) is important here.

But that's just speculation on the tactics; I haven't played enough yet to have a firm opinion on where best to defend.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rachel Simmons
United States
Los Altos
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
MattDP wrote:
So the Confederates won tonight, after what looked like a doomed attack actually managed to turn the Union left flank, allowing easy capture of two objectives. The third was far bloodier, but fell eventually.


This is backwards, it is the Union that has to Fully Control all three objectives. The Confederates only need to deny the Union this; they don't actually have to take even one objective, much less all three. See section 20, paragraph 2 for what "Fully Control" means for the Union.

Quote:

- The biggest one we had concerned artillery over obstructed terrain. If we understand correctly, a bombarding unit that's firing over an obstruction either opposite its position or opposite the target position, cannot fire. However, no such stricture applies to the defender?


Incorrect. Defensive artillery can only be played against attacking blocks crossing its field of fire, and artillery in a position with an obstructed terrain symbol in front of it has no field of fire.

For reference:

See section 9 for field of fire, second to last paragraph, second bullet: "A block has no field of fire at all if there is a symbol terrain in front of its position."

See section 13 for attack moves, step 2, defending artillery support: "Your artillery in a position has the same field of fire as your blocks in that position." and "A token can be played in a position only if ... (3) at least one attacking block's path crosses an area in the artillery's field fire."

Quote:
- In a multi-hour turn, multiple units can enter as reinforcements along a road. But the "first" unit that would have done so doesn't get any bonus march movement for being first?


This is not correct. Check the second paragraph in section 15 for the explanation of how to calculate march distance for a block that has entered as a reinforcement in a multi-hour turn.

Quote:
- When attacking there's no upper limit to the number of artillery tokens the attacker can play, so long as one qualifying unit is part of the units moving to attack, and the other qualifying units are adjacent or once removed, correct?


There is no limit to the number of tokens, but there is a limit to the total strength that can fire from that position, and that limit is 3 points. Artillery strength in excess of that limit is ignored.

See section 13, attack procedure step 5, first paragraph.
17 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tobias Fromme
Germany
Freising
Bavaria
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
squonk wrote:

Quote:
- When attacking there's no upper limit to the number of artillery tokens the attacker can play, so long as one qualifying unit is part of the units moving to attack, and the other qualifying units are adjacent or once removed, correct?

You can play a maximum of 2 tokens per position (true for attacker and defender). The tokens can have a total value of more than 3, but only 3 points per position can be used.
At least, that's how I read it!


That's how I understood that as well. But reading the rules section again after Bowen's statement...

bowen wrote:
There is no limit to the number of tokens, but there is a limit to the total strength that can fire from that position, and that limit is 3 points.


...made me wonder. I cannot find a clear statement forbidding me to use more than 2 tokens in ONE attacking position. Is that a correct interpreteation of what you just stated, Bowen? Can I use 3 "-any-" tokens in a single attacking position to bombard?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Thrower
United Kingdom
Bath
Somerset
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for the replies. Key rule I was missing is that obstructions block fields of fire.

Also seems I need to re-read the last pages about objectives and blocks moving twice.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rachel Simmons
United States
Los Altos
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Fromme wrote:

...made me wonder. I cannot find a clear statement forbidding me to use more than 2 tokens in ONE attacking position. Is that a correct interpreteation of what you just stated, Bowen? Can I use 3 "-any-" tokens in a single attacking position to bombard?


Yes, there is no token limit for the attacker. The defender only has a token limit because it simplified writing the rules for the effects of bombardment losses; no such problem applies to the attacker's tokens.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.