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Subject: Nefarian Attrition Question rss

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Michael Fan
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Hello,

Just finished a game with Nefarian as the boss. I have a question about Nefarian's special ability though.

Nefarian halves a character's "attrition value". He also has the second ability that players can only place hit tokens in the damage or defense box equal to the number of blue/red 8s rolled, all others are put in the attrition box.

My question is, does the redirected damage from the damage and defense boxes into the attrition box get halved as well?
 
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Brian
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Quote:
My question is, does the redirected damage from the damage and defense boxes into the attrition box get halved as well?

No. Even though those hits are placed in the attrition box, they are "attrition hits" and therefore do not get halved. This also has no effect on any abilities that place hits in the attrition box (instead of adding to attrition).

If that were so, then Nefarian would be crazy hard. As it is, he's easy to do damage against, just not easy to defend against, unless you do automatic hits (8s) in red (since no character seems to have an ability to do automatic hits in green).
 
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Michael Fan
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Ah thanks for the clarification. In this case, Nefarian actually seems fairly weak, since he doesn't have a 1-2 roll negative effect and he doesn't hit particularily hard. The only thing he has is a lot of health.

Just a minor nitpick, the paladin and warrior have automatic greens. Shield wall for the warrior changes 3 4+'s into green 8's. Seal of Protection changes any number of red dice into green 8's. Sometimes my friends actually roll less greens on purpose just to free up more green dice to get the automatic green 8's.
 
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Brian
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In this case, Nefarian actually seems fairly weak...

He isn't overly strong, no. But, his ability slows your attack and lowers your defense... meaning that without automatic red/blue hits he can be tough. Combined with the fact that there is a reasonable chance you will be forced to fight him before turn 30, he should be a bit weaker than the other two.

Shoot, in a game the other day both sides were forced to fight him @ Turn 25, and even though both sides had two level 4 characters, neither side was quite ready and lost the battle. His health just managed to outlast both factions, as he had taken 22-24 damage after two combat rounds, but almost all of that had been come thorugh the attrition box (meaning both characters had taken quite a bit of damage). Neither party was able to do enough blue damage to finish him off or create enough defense to survive until the attrition damage was applied in round 3 and all four characters died.

Quote:
Just a minor nitpick, the paladin and warrior have automatic greens. Shield wall for the warrior changes 3 4+'s into green 8's. Seal of Protection changes any number of red dice into green 8's. Sometimes my friends actually roll less greens on purpose just to free up more green dice to get the automatic green 8's.

You're right, I forgot those two. The point still somewhat stands, as many more characters do automatic blue/red than green. *shrug*
 
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Michael Fan
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Funny enough, the two times we played with Nefarian, he never reached the Bulwark. I guess we're just lucky with the event cards.

We also tend to be a little conservative; so far, no one has failed on a boss battle yet.
 
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Joe Stude
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My group played this for the second time last night and Nefarion was our villain. As the Horde we were rockin' with two level 5's and an almost level 4 and we were planning on hitting the store to shop before making a beeline to kick Nefarian's butt. The Alliance was way behind (two level 3's and a level 4) and decided to attack Nefarian anyway as a last gasp since they were so far behind. None of us thought they had a chance, but to our surprise they beat him pretty convincingly. Needless to say, we were a little disappointed a mostly level 3 team was able to beat an end boss, especially since they only had a dice pool of about 30 between them and they survived two rounds.
 
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Matthew M
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Nefarian is very beatable with only level 3/4 characters. That makes sense, considering the other bosses are designed to be defeated with level 4 characters and Nefarian speeds up the game clock.

You should be disappointed that you took so long in getting to him yourself The question I have is how the hell you got two level 5 characters before Nefarian reached the Bulwark!

-MMM
 
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Joe Stude
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Keep in mind this was only our second game of WoW and our first with the expansion, so we're still very green with regard to pacing. As far as leveling, we were just very efficient, with only one death the entire game. Had we thought the Alliance guys had any chance at all to take out Nefarian at those levels we wouldn't have bandied about as long as we did. Lesson learned.
 
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Matthew M
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Jowjow wrote:
Keep in mind this was only our second game of WoW and our first with the expansion, so we're still very green with regard to pacing. As far as leveling, we were just very efficient, with only one death the entire game. Had we thought the Alliance guys had any chance at all to take out Nefarian at those levels we wouldn't have bandied about as long as we did. Lesson learned.


Waitaminute...you had a character die and still managed to get two of them to level five!? Before Nefarian reached the Bulwark!?! Efficient indeed! I've never had a character reach fifth level - and some of those games had the timer wrap back around to start!

-MMM
 
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shadowTerp wrote:
Quote:
My question is, does the redirected damage from the damage and defense boxes into the attrition box get halved as well?

No. Even though those hits are placed in the attrition box, they are "attrition hits" and therefore do not get halved. This also has no effect on any abilities that place hits in the attrition box (instead of adding to attrition).

If that were so, then Nefarian would be crazy hard. As it is, he's easy to do damage against, just not easy to defend against, unless you do automatic hits (8s) in red (since no character seems to have an ability to do automatic hits in green).

I'm having a hard time reconciling the concept of "attrition hits" versus attrition in general. Here's an example: what of the Wariror skill "Enrage?" If Nef hits me 7 times, and I bank those hit counters on the card, then when it comes to the "place counter" step, I can add four of those counters to the attrition box. Are they halved? I suspect Nefarian actually halves all attrition, which makes auto-8's that much more important!

Still, 26 health vs. an attack of 12 (for 2 chars). If you can weather 3 rounds of fighting, then you should be able to knock him out. Figure 5 full, "8-hits" per round, then another combined 8 attrition halved to 4 per round, and he's dead in 3 rounds. If those 5 hits are red (or blues with matching green armors), then you have to absorb 21 points' worth of damage during the fight. Those are some pretty modest numbers, and they are definitely doable with a tank and some healing by level 4.
 
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After some closer reading of the rules, I think that shadowTerp is right: red/blue hits placed in the Attrition box are not halved, while the active character's Attribute score is halved.

I realize that this thread was pretty old before my post, so I'll add some color to my comments. My son and I were nearing the end of a game with Nefarian as the overlord. I was playing as the Horde, with Grumbaz Crowsblood (Warrior), and Zowka Shattertusk (Shaman). Grumbaz had 22 XP and had reached level 4; Zowka had 21 XP and was also at level 4. Here were their setups:

Grumbaz: Berserker Stance, Rend, Heroic Strike, Charge, Solid Iron Maul, Cleave, Tortoise Armor. Talents: Cruelty, Unbridled Wrath, and Enrage.

Zowka: Rockbiter Weapon, Windfury Weapon, Stoneskin Totem, Chain Lightning, Witch Doctor's Cane, Healing Wave, Dustfall Robes. Talents: Improved Healing Wave, Parry, and Stormstrike.

Grumbaz used Charge to Gain 1 Energy (up to 5). He rolled 4 red dice: 3 from the Solid Iron Maul, and spent 2 Energy on Heroic Strike. He also rolled 2 green dice: 4 from the Tortoise Armor, less 2 for Berserker Stance. Usually one of the 4 red dice would be a 6 or higher, and another would be at least a 4. Spending 1 Energy on Rend allowed me to change a 4+ to an 8. Berserker Stance allowed me to make another 8. I had a reroll value of 1, so I would typically reroll a remaining red, or else the green. After the reroll step I used Cruelty to increase the 6+ to a 7 or an 8. At this point I'd be looking at three 8's, and possibly a 7. Now the fun would begin.

I'd spend 1 energy to spot an "8" and gain +3 attrition. The remaining 2-3 red 7+'s would allow me to regain Energy with Unbridled Wrath. I had +1 Attrition from Bloodfury, +2 from Berserker Stance, +1 from the Solid Iron Maul, for a first-round total of 7 Attrition. Halved & rounded up meant 4 hits in the Attrition box, plus the hits from the red dice. On subsequent rounds I'd use 4 hits from Enrage to bump Attrition up to 11. Halved & rounded meant 6 additional hits.

Zowka was configured to be mostly defensive. She rolled 3 reds, 4 blues, and all 7 greens. She had a reroll value of 6. She was there to help stop attacks from getting through to Grumbaz, and also to heal him. Anything beyond that was gravy.

The end result was a three-round battle. Grumbaz used a Minor Healing Potion, and Zowka used Improved Healing Wave for a total of 5 points' worth of healing during the fight. Grumbaz finished with 4 Health and 4 Energy remaining; Zowka had 3 Health, and 2 Energy. Thus, the two of them absorbed 18 hits during the fight (below my predicted average). They combined for 37 points' worth of damage against Nefarian -- well above my estimate of 27 hits, but that estimate also factored in halving all attrition, even the damage/defense hits added to the attrition box.

Just to round out the story, this final battle took place on Turn 23, in Sorrow Hill -- two spaces away from The Bulwark.
 
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Boris Langemark
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Beowulf wrote:
...Zowka: Rockbiter Weapon, Windfury Weapon...


Remember that both of these are unique powers (rules p. 16) of type "Weapon Enchantment" and as such is restricted. You may only ever have up to one of these equiped at any given time.
 
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