Frederick Ho
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Recently I purchased the game A Day of Heroes by Lock N Load Publishing from a local game store in Hong Kong. After unwrapping the game 2 days later, I discovered that this game are missing ALL THE COUNTERS and only have the rules and scenario sheet with 2 6 sided dice.
I related this incident to Lock N Load Publishing, in the hope that some kind of remedy can be done about this.
Soon enough, in less than one day, a Mr. Jim Crabtree from LnL replied to my message, stating that the game, A Day of Heroes, is currently out of stock and "they have no counters to send". He just shrug me off and told me to go back to the game store and "make sure that they give me a new copy of the game". He "want to help more but they are out of stock". Period.
Now is it just my bad luck or is it a "norm" for game company to tell their customer to go back to the retailer and demand a replacement, putting all the blames on the retailer and even hinting that they are selling a used game to me? I mean I have been buying from this store for over ten years and this is the first time that happened. Or is it the fact that I am from some remote city in the Far East instead of some "main stream" customer from the US or UK so I got second rate treatment?
I don't think I will ever buy another copy of Lock n Load game again.

Frederick Ho
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Leo Zappa
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Assuming for the moment that the game was shipped from LnL to your local retailer without the counters, I'd certainly tend to attribute that to poor quality control from LnL and that being the case, if I were LnL, I'd consider directly refunding you for the cost of the game, as a sign of good will. However, if LnL is out of counter sheets for that particular game, you can't expect them to produce a single new countersheet just for your copy, can you? Printing doesn't work like that (though, I suppose they could send you a photocopy of the countersheet, with the expectation that you would mount and cut out the counters yourself). I think a good will refund would be reasonable - beyond that, I'm not sure what else they could do.
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Tyler
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The game is completely out of stock and copies are selling for $80+ on the secondary market. I'm not sure what Lock 'n Load could have done to make it right for you -- if they don't have the inventory in stock, they can't replace your missing components. I also have a hard time accepting that they "don't care," given that they replied promptly (within a day, according to you) and expressed regret that they couldn't help you out. Bummer deal that you bought an incomplete game, but save your venom for the shop that sold it to you -- that is, if they won't accept a return.
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Kev.
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whisky_bear wrote:
The game is completely out of stock and copies are selling for $80+ on the secondary market. I'm not sure what Lock 'n Load could have done to make it right for you -- if they don't have the inventory in stock, they can't replace your missing components. I also have a hard time accepting that they "don't care," given that they replied promptly (within a day, according to you) and expressed regret that they couldn't help you out. Bummer deal that you bought an incomplete game, but save your venom for the shop that sold it to you -- that is, if they won't accept a return.


In deed. Makes me wonder how a game could get out of the warehouse like that.
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Tyler
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hipshot wrote:


In deed. Makes me wonder how a game could get out of the warehouse like that.


I think someone with access to a photocopier and a shrink-wrap machine helped themselves to a free copy of A Day of Heroes.
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Craig McRoberts
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I once bought a copy of Alhambra Limited Gold Edition from a very reputable OLGS. It was surprising that they had it at all, since it wasn't widely available. Imagine my surprise, upon opening it from its shrink wrapped box, that most of the contents were clearly from other products and not a single thing from the limited edition was in there.

Upon talking to a few people (and getting a refund from the store), it appears likely that someone had purchased the game, removed the limited edition components, made up the weight with other items, and returned it. Many places, such as Amazon, don't even bother checking to make certain the contents are correct before returning the product to their suppliers, and suppliers don't usually think to second-guess a big operator like Amazon, so they probably wrapped it and sent it back out. (Source: associates in retail that sell through Amazon)

The point to all of this is there could be as many as two or three other parties in between the publisher and the retailer. And the biggest culprit is most likely an over abundance of faith in humanity's good nature. Get a refund, throw a fit about it if it makes you feel better. But it's most likely not the publisher's fault, and there's almost certainly nothing they can do.
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Christopher Dearlove
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I don't know about where you are, but here your only actual rights are to get a replacement or refund from the retailer you bought it from. Publishers often do help out, but their only actual obligation is to the retailer (or there may be a wholesaler in between). And usually that would be a refund. Going back to the publisher, if they don't have the components, they don't have the components, and (in many/most circumstances) not much they can do about that except offer a refund - but not directly to you. Not what you want, but that's reality.
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Scott Nelson
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This really should be moved to Discussing Retailers threads, not general.
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No No No Sheep
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i got bent miniature from FFG's World of Warcraft Adventures once, and their reply just an apology because they are not license holder of warcraft anymore and have no inventory of damaged item..

i also have some missing components from FFG's other game and they replaced me no question and no photo asked..

OP's disappointment / complaint is very very very understandable from a purchasing customer point of view, i can personally relate to that too and im sure will be posting the same in BGG. But for the best, i think both parties should resolved their differences in some way, to the satisfaction of a very disappointed LnL customer. Im sure LnL will do anything to remedy this situation.
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Derry Salewski
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It's not bizzare to return things to a store. It's just that in a small gaming industry, it's easier often for companies to manage customer service themselves.

But when I buy bad milk I bring it back to grocery store, not write the milk company. I got a broken weight from walmart, I took it back to walmart. If my sandwich is wrong from mcdonalds, I'll take it back there. Stores should be equipped to deal with returns. Now, not everyone has a policy that gets rid of the bad taste from the hassle that comes from having to return it (But some do! I got double my money back on a rotten salad the other day!)

So bring it to the store and get your money back, or get a real copy of the game. And make sure it doen't weigh half a lb . . .

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Frederick Ho
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Well the store's manager is contacting Mark of L n L (he cc me his email to him) Let's see what will happen. I am disppointed by the store and L n L. But hey, who am I anyway (sarcasm intended)
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Michele Esmanech
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scifiantihero wrote:
It's not bizzare to return things to a store. It's just that in a small gaming industry, it's easier often for companies to manage customer service themselves.

But when I buy bad milk I bring it back to grocery store, not write the milk company. I got a broken weight from walmart, I took it back to walmart. If my sandwich is wrong from mcdonalds, I'll take it back there. Stores should be equipped to deal with returns. Now, not everyone has a policy that gets rid of the bad taste from the hassle that comes from having to return it (But some do! I got double my money back on a rotten salad the other day!)

So bring it to the store and get your money back, or get a real copy of the game. And make sure it doen't weigh half a lb . . .



100% correct thumbsup
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Mike Collins
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Fridge wrote:
I am disppointed by [...] L n L.

I don't understand - what is it that you expect L n L to do? They have told you that they don't have any physical copies of the missing components to send you. They can't send you a replacement because none exist.

If you're after a refund, then your transaction was with the store, and it's their responsibility to give you that refund, or to replace the game.
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Liam
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Moved from General Gaming to Discussing Retailers

My understanding is that the store should give you a refund and then sort out their own refund for whomever they bought it from. Your store is 'at it' if they're stalling on a refund till they hear from LnL.

Unfortunately, errors in production do happen and where possible respectable publishers will try to sort it out but ultimately, if they don't have the item in stock there is little they can do. I'm sure LnL would help you if they could but unfortunately they can't. So you need to get a refund from the shop you bought it from and, frankly, if I were to boycott anyone it would be a shop that hasn't given me my refund.
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No No No Sheep
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Fridge wrote:
Well the store's manager is contacting Mark of L n L (he cc me his email to him) Let's see what will happen. I am disppointed by the store and L n L. But hey, who am I anyway (sarcasm intended)


I understand very well in your disappointment.

i agree you should refund the game to the owner/store and let the owner resolve the product defects to LnL.
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Andy Cowen
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I've always had great customer service form Lock n Load. Last year, my copy of Forgotten Heroes had some misprinted counters, they were replaced within 2 days and Mr. Walker through in the preorder scenarios as well. Sounds like the store you bought the game from was at fault for selling you an incomplete game.

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A few notes,

I have been selling L&L titles now for over 3 years and only one or two times have I had a verified report of missing components, usually just a counter sheet. Both times the problem was resolved by L&L.

I have never had a report of a missing board, manual, etc.. and never from a Day of Heroes - and we sold quite a few of those. The game is definitely OOP and L&L very likely has no spare parts available.

I would strongly recommend returning the game to the store you bought it from and ALWAYS check your game immediately after you buy it if at ALL possible - even in the store in front of the clerk if feasible. Usually only takes a few minutes to check most games vs a LOT of extra time dealing with the matter afterwards. This holds especially true if a game is out of print, hard to find, or there is any question about how "new" the game really is on the shelf.

Thanks
Christopher Dean
NWS Online Gaming Store
Director of Operations
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Ygor
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Return it to the retailer. LnL is being honest. Why would they lie and disappoint a customer? Have some faith in LnL and just consider yourself unlucky, that your retailer is unlucky, or that your retailer is shady.

Asking LnL to send you something they obviously don't have is kind of unreasonable.

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Could be Lock n Load has had problems with that particular retailer in the past or they could actually be out of tokens. Most retailers of boardgames try to get replacement pieces out to customers but occasionally they may not be able to. Either way the sale was between you and the retailer, so any returns should be taken there first. That allows the manufacturer to track concentrations of bad product so they can investigate further into where or when the problems are developing. The retailer should honor your purchase or try to make it right as best they can (if that is your choice).

Going beyond that, if you paid by credit card, you can call the credit card company and file a report, tell them everything that happened and that the retailer did not sell you a complete game and they will stop payment or get their own lawyers on the retailer (that's what they did for me when some fraud electronics place in jersey shipped me the wrong camera and insisted they shipped the correct one).

For example: If people get sick from bad meat, they file a lawsuit with the grocery store first, if it escalates, then the meat packer gets involved.
 
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If you buy from a retailer, your grievance is with them first.
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Jonathan "Spartan Spawn, Sworn, Raised for Warring!"
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shadow9d9 wrote:
If you buy from a retailer, your grievance is with them first.


This.

I can say Jim is extremely helpful, I pre-ordered America Conquered had it delivered last week only to discover a great many damaged components as well as the box. I contacted Jim asking for just replacement parts, he shipped me out a completely brand new game.

The fault is not with LNL it is with the store you purchased it from. Get a refund from the store. If LNL is sold out, they cannot offer you something they dont have anything of to replace whats missing.
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Leo Zappa
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Luftwaffe Flak wrote:
shadow9d9 wrote:
If you buy from a retailer, your grievance is with them first.


This.

I can say Jim is extremely helpful, I pre-order America Conquered had it delivered last week only to discover a great many damaged components as well as the box. I contacted Jim asking for just replacement parts, he shipped me out a completely brand new game.

The fault is not with LNL it is with the store you purchased it from. Get a refund from the store. If LNL is sold out, they cannot offer you something they dont have anything of to replace whats missing.


Well, just to be clear, the fault may be with LnL, if the game was packaged, sealed, and shipped without the counter sheet. The retailer in this case would not be expected to break the shrink and inventory the contents of the box. That being said, the typical first move is to return the game to the retailer for a refund. The retailer should in turn return the game to the publisher/wholesaler for a refund as well. Point is that in this scenario, the original would indeed be with LnL for failing to insert the countersheet into the box prior to sealing and shipping it.

Also, it is possible that LnL did ship a complete game, and that somewhere from LnL to the retailer, a third party opened the game and removed the countersheet, for whatever reason. In this case, clearly, LnL would have no fault in the case.
 
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Leo, you are correct, I meant the fault/responsibility of the refund lays with the store, not LNL. The game wasnt purchased from LNL, its not on them to give money back.

I shouldve worded that better.
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scifiantihero wrote:
Stores should be equipped to deal with returns.


Round these parts, it's a legal requirement.

(I did have one - nothing to do with games - once that had invented a crazy procedure they claimed was legal. Couldn't be bothered to argue with them. They almost certainly cost themselves more money - which they'd never get back - than the retail cost (never mind the profit) on the item in an attempt not to refund unless absolutely necessary. Then they still had to refund me, and I also decided never to shop there ever again - and it's a shop I otherwise might well have visited. How to shoot themselves in both feet.)
 
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Thaadd Powell
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The issue behind the WoW board games was not willingness, but literally a license issue where another company had the license then, and any support could possibly be construed as diluting the license. When you deal with companies of the size of Blizzard, you CYA and think conservatively.

When the contract expired, the replacement parts were thrown away. Other games were supported for years afterwards (iD's Doom for instance) - both licensed and not.

(source - I used to mail those little bits!)

dprijadi wrote:
i got bent miniature from FFG's World of Warcraft Adventures once, and their reply just an apology because they are not license holder of warcraft anymore and have no inventory of damaged item..

i also have some missing components from FFG's other game and they replaced me no question and no photo asked..

OP's disappointment / complaint is very very very understandable from a purchasing customer point of view, i can personally relate to that too and im sure will be posting the same in BGG. But for the best, i think both parties should resolved their differences in some way, to the satisfaction of a very disappointed LnL customer. Im sure LnL will do anything to remedy this situation.
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