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A Christian ministry that was the leading proponent of the “ex-gay” movement — which held that gay men and lesbians could be “cured” through prayer and psychotherapy — said that it was ceasing operations amid widening internal rifts and growing skepticism of its mission.

The decision by the board of Exodus International to stop operating comes as the group’s president, Alan Chambers, has been increasingly vocal in proclaiming that there was no cure for homosexuality and that therapy did not work in changing a person’s sexual orientation. In a statement posted Wednesday on the group’s Web site, he cited a recent letter he had written to gay men and lesbians.

“I am sorry for the pain and hurt many of you have experienced,” he said in the letter. “I am sorry that some of you spent years working through the shame and guilt you felt when your attractions didn’t change. I am sorry we promoted sexual orientation change efforts and reparative theories about sexual orientation that stigmatized parents.”

The group’s underlying approach toward homosexuality had been that people are not born with such sexual inclinations, but rather choose them, leaving the potential for their being cured. Such thinking has been a rationale among some conservatives and evangelicals for their staunch opposition to same-sex marriage.

Progress! [LINK]
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Josiah Fiscus
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Everything is wrong with this. They were wrong in their initial approach and what they've switched to is just as wrong. Of course there is no "cure" for sin. But we all still have choices to make. The idea that we are born free of all inclinations and preferences towards sinful things isn't borne out by logic, observation, or sound theology. I'm just as happy as you are that is organization has been shut down, albeit for different reasons.
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happyjosiah wrote:
Everything is wrong with this. They were wrong in their initial approach and what they've switched to is just as wrong. Of course there is no "cure" for sin. But we all still have choices to make. The idea that we are born free of all inclinations and preferences towards sinful things isn't borne out by logic, observation, or sound theology. I'm just as happy as you are that is organization has been shut down, albeit for different reasons.


Homosexual behavior isn't a choice, unless you're bi.

~Euen
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braveheart101 wrote:
happyjosiah wrote:
Everything is wrong with this. They were wrong in their initial approach and what they've switched to is just as wrong. Of course there is no "cure" for sin. But we all still have choices to make. The idea that we are born free of all inclinations and preferences towards sinful things isn't borne out by logic, observation, or sound theology. I'm just as happy as you are that is organization has been shut down, albeit for different reasons.


Homosexual behavior isn't a choice, unless you're bi.

~Euen


That's ridiculous. I'm straight and my heterosexual behavior is still a choice.
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happyjosiah wrote:
Of course there is no "cure" for sin.

yuk
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Adrian Hague
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If I give a blowjob, but don't get an erection whilst doing so, I'm not gay, right? whistle shake
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happyjosiah wrote:

That's ridiculous. I'm straight and my heterosexual behavior is still a choice.


What is ridiculous is your dishonesty. But you don't need to care, right? You'll be saved in the end. shake
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Chad Ellis
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AdrianPHague wrote:
If I give a blowjob, but don't get an erection whilst doing so, I'm not gay, right? whistle shake


I dont' know, but I think BJ would like to know if you're ever in Wisconsin.
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Koldfoot wrote:
Their faith was weak.

That's needed for killing vampires with Crosses, not for 'Curing' gays. You're confusing the Faith connected Cross powers.
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Koldfoot wrote:
Their faith was weak.


The only thing weak is the whole subject. Same-old, same-old... we''l have the same players, same comments, exact same everything. The whole subject of "gay" is boring and the people who repeatedly have this fight are unimaginative and tedious.

AdrianPHague wrote:
If I give a blowjob, but don't get an erection whilst doing so, I'm not gay, right? whistle shake


Apparently you've been to prison. Remember, just because a guy sucks the occasional dick, that's no reason to call him a queer.
 
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Paul DeStefano
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happyjosiah wrote:
Of course there is no "cure" for sin.


Confession?
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DWTripp wrote:
The only thing weak is the whole subject. Same-old, same-old... we''l have the same players, same comments, exact same everything. The whole subject of "gay" is boring and the people who repeatedly have this fight are unimaginative and tedious.

Yeah, yeah. We know, you never think about the topic or ever discuss it with anyone. So why do you feel compelled to post in the threads if you are so disinterested regarding the subject?
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b a n j o wrote:
happyjosiah wrote:
braveheart101 wrote:
happyjosiah wrote:
Everything is wrong with this. They were wrong in their initial approach and what they've switched to is just as wrong. Of course there is no "cure" for sin. But we all still have choices to make. The idea that we are born free of all inclinations and preferences towards sinful things isn't borne out by logic, observation, or sound theology. I'm just as happy as you are that is organization has been shut down, albeit for different reasons.


Homosexual behavior isn't a choice, unless you're bi.

~Euen


That's ridiculous. I'm straight and my heterosexual behavior is still a choice.


So please tell everyone about the time you weighed the pros and cons of heterosexuality and homosexuality, and chose to join the heterosexual community. I, for one, would be curious as to the content of the Pro/Con debate you waged with yourself.


Josiah's position is bad enough without us distorting it. He's specifically referring to behavior, not whether to be heterosexual or homosexual. His claim, I'm fairly certain, is that he chose to be sexually active and that he's chosen how and with whom to be sexually active, not that he made a choice to be attracted to women.
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Well Ok! It goes on the list of Things with No Cure. That puts homosexuality in the same category as the Summertime Blues.
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happyjosiah wrote:
braveheart101 wrote:
happyjosiah wrote:
Everything is wrong with this. They were wrong in their initial approach and what they've switched to is just as wrong. Of course there is no "cure" for sin. But we all still have choices to make. The idea that we are born free of all inclinations and preferences towards sinful things isn't borne out by logic, observation, or sound theology. I'm just as happy as you are that is organization has been shut down, albeit for different reasons.


Homosexual behavior isn't a choice, unless you're bi.

~Euen


That's ridiculous. I'm straight and my heterosexual behavior is still a choice.


Change behavior to inclination then.
 
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Chad_Ellis wrote:
b a n j o wrote:
happyjosiah wrote:
braveheart101 wrote:
happyjosiah wrote:
Everything is wrong with this. They were wrong in their initial approach and what they've switched to is just as wrong. Of course there is no "cure" for sin. But we all still have choices to make. The idea that we are born free of all inclinations and preferences towards sinful things isn't borne out by logic, observation, or sound theology. I'm just as happy as you are that is organization has been shut down, albeit for different reasons.


Homosexual behavior isn't a choice, unless you're bi.

~Euen


That's ridiculous. I'm straight and my heterosexual behavior is still a choice.


So please tell everyone about the time you weighed the pros and cons of heterosexuality and homosexuality, and chose to join the heterosexual community. I, for one, would be curious as to the content of the Pro/Con debate you waged with yourself.


Josiah's position is bad enough without us distorting it. He's specifically referring to behavior, not whether to be heterosexual or homosexual. His claim, I'm fairly certain, is that he chose to be sexually active and that he's chosen how and with whom to be sexually active, not that he made a choice to be attracted to women.


That is correct. I was responding to Euen who specifically said "BEHAVIOR", not orientation.
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Geosphere wrote:
happyjosiah wrote:
braveheart101 wrote:
happyjosiah wrote:
Everything is wrong with this. They were wrong in their initial approach and what they've switched to is just as wrong. Of course there is no "cure" for sin. But we all still have choices to make. The idea that we are born free of all inclinations and preferences towards sinful things isn't borne out by logic, observation, or sound theology. I'm just as happy as you are that is organization has been shut down, albeit for different reasons.


Homosexual behavior isn't a choice, unless you're bi.

~Euen


That's ridiculous. I'm straight and my heterosexual behavior is still a choice.


Change behavior to inclination then.


My heterosexual inclination is NOT a choice.
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happyjosiah wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
happyjosiah wrote:
braveheart101 wrote:
happyjosiah wrote:
Everything is wrong with this. They were wrong in their initial approach and what they've switched to is just as wrong. Of course there is no "cure" for sin. But we all still have choices to make. The idea that we are born free of all inclinations and preferences towards sinful things isn't borne out by logic, observation, or sound theology. I'm just as happy as you are that is organization has been shut down, albeit for different reasons.


Homosexual behavior isn't a choice, unless you're bi.

~Euen


That's ridiculous. I'm straight and my heterosexual behavior is still a choice.


Change behavior to inclination then.


My heterosexual inclination is NOT a choice.


Precisely!
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Going back to the OP, I have to say I'm really, really impressed with this decision by Exodus and by individuals like Chambers and Paulk. They built their lives around a belief system and were still able, eventually, to see that they were wrong -- and then to step forward, apologize and try to make amends.

That's pretty damn impressive, regardless of what we think of what their mistaken beliefs led them to.
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HavocIsHere wrote:
happyjosiah wrote:

That's ridiculous. I'm straight and my heterosexual behavior is still a choice.


What is ridiculous is your dishonesty. But you don't need to care, right? You'll be saved in the end. shake


I don't know what you mean by this. Intellectual dishonesty? Or do you think I'm actually trying to deceive you with what I am saying? I know you vehemently disagree with my position (on basically everything), but please try to address the substance of what I am saying instead of my character. It makes for better discussion. Thanks!
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Geosphere wrote:
happyjosiah wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
happyjosiah wrote:
braveheart101 wrote:
happyjosiah wrote:
Everything is wrong with this. They were wrong in their initial approach and what they've switched to is just as wrong. Of course there is no "cure" for sin. But we all still have choices to make. The idea that we are born free of all inclinations and preferences towards sinful things isn't borne out by logic, observation, or sound theology. I'm just as happy as you are that is organization has been shut down, albeit for different reasons.


Homosexual behavior isn't a choice, unless you're bi.

~Euen


That's ridiculous. I'm straight and my heterosexual behavior is still a choice.


Change behavior to inclination then.


My heterosexual inclination is NOT a choice.


Precisely!


So what's your point?
 
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happyjosiah wrote:
Chad_Ellis wrote:
Josiah's position is bad enough...


That is correct....


/thread ninja
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happyjosiah wrote:
Or do you think I'm actually trying to deceive you with what I am saying?


He thinks your deceiving yourself.
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I think what Josiah is getting at is that sexual sin in the Christian faith is not limited to gays, and that participation in sexual activity outside of Biblical marriage constitutes sin. No one is forced into this sin, but people enter in to it when they choose to act on their sexual desires. The desire itself is not the sin.

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bmhoman1 wrote:
I think what Josiah is getting at is that sexual sin in the Christian faith is not limited to gays, and that participation in sexual activity outside of Biblical marriage constitutes sin. No one is forced into this sin, but people enter in to it when they choose to act on their sexual desires. The desire itself is not the sin.


Right. And consequently, an organization that tries to "cure temptation" is going to be wildly unsuccessful. But rather than seeing this as a tactical failure, they see it as one of doctrine. It's like pulling on a door that says "push" for a while and then deciding it must not really be a door after all since it doesn't open.
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