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Subject: The 243rd Edition of the TGIF Poll rss

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Ben Lott
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If you want updates on when new TGIF polls are posted, or want to look at the results of past polls go to The TGIF Poll Subscription Thread.

Poll: The 243rd TGIF Poll
How many games and expansions have you played but not rated (at least since you've been on BGG)?

Those who log plays on BGG can find this information on their Stats page, those who don't will have to estimate.
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
0
22.7% 61
1-10
27.9% 75
11-20
10.8% 29
21-30
6.7% 18
31-40
4.8% 13
41-50
5.9% 16
51-60
1.9% 5
61-70
2.2% 6
71-80
1.5% 4
81-90
1.5% 4
91-100
1.9% 5
101+
12.3% 33
Voters 269
How many times do you usually play a game before rating it?
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
0
0.4% 1
1
52.0% 142
2
15.4% 42
3
15.4% 42
4
2.9% 8
5
4.0% 11
6
0.4% 1
7
0.0% 0
8
0.0% 0
9
0.0% 0
10+
1.1% 3
I don't usually rate games
8.4% 23
Voters 273
How many games and expansions have you played but not left a comment (again we're only counting since you've been on BGG)?

And again, if you log plays you can easily pull this info on your Stats page.
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
0
4.2% 11
1-10
14.7% 39
11-20
7.5% 20
21-30
6.4% 17
31-40
6.8% 18
41-50
6.0% 16
51-60
5.7% 15
61-70
4.2% 11
71-80
2.6% 7
81-90
1.1% 3
91-100
0.8% 2
101+
40.0% 106
Voters 265
How many times do you usually play a game before writing a comment for it?
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
0
2.3% 6
1
29.4% 78
2
8.7% 23
3
7.2% 19
4
3.4% 9
5
4.5% 12
6
0.4% 1
7
0.4% 1
8
0.0% 0
9
0.0% 0
10+
4.2% 11
I don't usually post comments on games
39.6% 105
Voters 265
This poll is now closed.   274 answers
Poll created by Blott
Closes: Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:00 am


5. What kind of stuff do you like to include in your game comments?

Any discussion is encouraged.
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Kirk Groeneweg
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interesting... Q2 made me think. I usually rate them right after playing. Is that fair? The first game is sometimes fumbling thru a few things, making sure you're doing it right, etc. Is it fair to rate it right away like I do? I should go back and look at the games I've played a number of times and make sure I think the rating fits.
Q4 - I guess it varies. I will write if we liked it or not. It's not anything "deep" that's for sure.
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Ben Lott
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1 - I currently have 3, and none of them will ever be rated. The 3 games I have not rated are Dominoes, Outside the Scope of BGG, and Traditional Card Games. Since multiple games can fit under each of these items I find it pointless to try and produce a single rating for them.

2 - 1 play is all it takes for me to decide if I want to play again. Since I don't consider ratings some objective measure of quality, I can assess my personal opinion even without finishing an entire game.

3 - I have 104 right now, which is absolutely embarrassing! This is actually why the poll topic occurred to me, because I started working on writing comments for all these games yesterday.

4 - I only need to play once to write a comment, but because I've fallen so far behind writing them it seems that more plays are passing without comments being posted. Shame on me!

5 - Mostly just my personal opinions. I will try to simply sum up what it was about the game that made me like/dislike it. I've decided to pare down to only a single simple paragraph, because some of them were getting quite long and I don't want reviews there for my geekbuddy's to have to read.
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I will however often amend rating or comments after a few plays.
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Mike Jones
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I only have about 10 games played and unrated.

I rate most of the time after one play. I feel that with the 'experience' many of us have with gaming, we can judge most games with one play. Much like you first impressions of a person when you meet them are 'normally' correct, your first impression of a game is 'normally' correct. That being said, sometimes it's the group playing the game and not the game that makes or breaks a game. 'Normally' you can tell if it's because of them and not the game, so those are the times I don't rate on one play.

I broke your question when it came to comments. I have 250+ played games without comments even though I do try to comment on games. But, I only go 'out of my way' to comment on the extremes. I try and make it a point to comment on why I have my 9's and 10's (and to some extent 8's) and also my 1's, 2's, 3's and 4's.
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'Bernard Wingrave'
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I sometimes use the comments field to store information about my impressions on a game based on what I have read or seen about it, even if I haven't played it. I try to remember to put the word impression in the comment when I do that.
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Jonathan "Spartan Spawn, Sworn, Raised for Warring!"
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I generally only rate/comment games that I own. Easier to keep up with as I do go through and amend my comments and ratings with time.

A game has to really suck, or be really really good for me to rate/comment it if I dont own it.
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Zack Stackurski
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I normally give a game a provisional rating after its first game... but revisit that quickly after additional plays to make it seem right. I also think the comments on BGG are a treasure trove of great information and do my best to comment on a game right away once I've played even if I'm not sure what the rating should be. My comments range from mini-reviews to a line or two about what the game is/how it feels to play.
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Dr. Urza, PhD of Dungeon Crawl
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When I rate a game depends on how much I liked the first playing of it. If I hated the game and swore never to play it again, I'd slap it with a 1-3 and call it a day. I sometimes give a 4-5 after one play if I'm lukewarm.

Anything over a 5 requires a second or third play, unless the game is really long in which case I'll rate it immediately. At that point, I'll give it up to an 8. If I still really like an "8" game after many plays, I'll consider bumping it to a 9, and eventually to 10. 9s and 10s are never awarded after just a handful of plays.
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Kyle
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I counted 73 "Played and Unrated" and just as many Uncommented, which surprised me a bit. Didn't expect so many, and when there's some free time I intend to go back and knock several off that list.

Normally I'll wait to play a game at least 2 or 3 times before rating it, and I'll leave a comment at the same time. Until then, my play log acts as sort of the comment field giving initial impressions of the game if it's one I'd never played before.

Once I do leave a comment (and a rating), it's usually like a mini-review of the game, giving a short overview of what I thought of the game - what's good about it and what could be better. With games that I've played more extensively my comments tend to get a lot longer and more detailed.
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Jeff K
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It's interesting to me that the majority of people feel they can make some sort of comment after only 1 play of a game. I tend to gravitate toward pretty heavy games, so I feel there is no justification for making a comment after only one play, as I quite easily just don't "get it" after only one play. Even for simpler games, you can miss the point sometimes.

I suppose that you can always change your comments later. I would follow up with the question then:

Are you willing to change your comment later when you find your first impressions misled you about a game?

And note that it can go both ways, sometimes your regard for a game goes up and sometimes down. I say "when" in that question above and not "if" because I see revisions to comments with a very high frequency, so I can only conclude that opinions change quite frequently with increasing number of plays.

Incidentally, this is why I tend to ignore or discount comments and reviews that contain the phrase "first impressions." Nothing personal, I would just like to know that you have a good grasp of it before I take your recommendation. And yes, it does matter to me because I afford comments on games the most weight when researching new games, so this is a great poll!
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Kevin Whitmore
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Thanks for the prompt. I had a lot more games rated and not commented on than I realized. I - in theory -want to have a comment on every game I rate. But a lot of older games had missed this treatment.

When I play new games I strive to record a "first impression" comment, and my rating tends to be an indication of my enthusiasm for playing again.

I appreciate comments by others that give me some insight as to what made the game pleasurable or not pleasurable. Negative remarks are often more instructive than positive remarks. I try to offer similar commentary on my remarks. By doing so, I hope to help others with their own selections, just as I have had benefit from the collective BGG comments.
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Enrico Viglino
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Quote:
What kind of stuff do you like to include in your game comments?


If something strikes me about the game that I really think needs saying,
I'll put a comment. Usually I forgo doing so though, because wading through
a list of short useless comments is as good as there being none at all.
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    Some games give a pretty solid impression after one play. I had Lords of Waterdeep rated right away. Other games leave you with the impression that there's more to learn, more options and detail that you haven't uncovered and those remain unrated until I get a better handle on them. Generally a second play does the job, but I have a few games with three or more plays that I haven't settled a rating in on yet.

    I'll change ratings too, which would be another interesting question set for next Friday. How often do you change ratings? How often up? How often down?

             S.


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Michal Vit
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I usually rate after the first game (with a comment that it's a preliminary rating), but update the ratings if my opinion changes. Sometimes I wait for a few more games, especially if it was just a learning game etc.
But I do not log expansion plays (only 1 for the first play) and I very rarely comment on the expansions.
So, the stats as asked by the poll could be a bit misleading.

I usually extend the comments, so, leaving a history there. Also, I created a comment rating based on inspiration from
Play Games - Interact - Have Fun!
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. But I need time and enough plays to make such comments, so, I have only about 1/3 of my comments in this extended form.

Example of my comment on Ingenious:
I do not like puzzle-like games neither abstracts very much. So, this actually rates quite high for me when belonging to both mentioned categories.
Even increased a bit after several plays.
After 150+ plays the rating decreased from 8 to 7.5. I still think it's a good game, but simply would like to play other unplayed things. As a 2-player game I would rate it 9 (as it is less luck dependant).
Again increased to 8, I just wouldn't suggest it for 4 players (maybe only with the team play which adds some additional challenge).

Rules Complexity
Strategic Depth
Luck Factor
Negotiation Factor
Amount of Downtime
Replayability
Player Interaction
"Take That" Conflict
Theme Integration
For 2 players
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I don't mind rating a game after one play and then raising or lowering that rating after playing several more times.

I only leave comments, however, for games that are in my collection.

The comments I normally leave are the same comments I put in my first play log of the game. I will edit the comment as I played the game more and hone my opinion.
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There is ongoing discussion in some areas about the utility of playing a game that you did not like a second time, and there are many people who say they would not give a game they did not enjoy a second chance. As such, ratings and comments after a single play must have some recognized value within the community.

The trick is adjusting those ratings and comments after multiple plays when that is an option.

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David Reed
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I like to get a few plays under my belt before I rate a game. That allows a "first game rules goof" to not adversely affect things and for the "I spent a lot of money on this game, so I am determined to like it" to overly boost ratings.

This does not prevent a few games from hitting the "I never want to play this game again" factor before the first play of the game is over. In most cases, those games just remain unrated, but I will, every once in a while, give a rating. In such cases, there will be a comment.

I find that I don't comment on games that often. If I do, I may explain that a game really works well for me and why or perceived issues with the game that cause me to rate a game as I did.
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Steve Bauer
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1 - 0, I rate them as soon as I play them. I always have around 200 that I rated before I started recording plays.

2 - 1 play, I always have an opinion and have mo way of knowing which games will get played again so want to capture it as close to actually playing the game as possible. I will adjust my ratings if my opinion changes from subsequent plays. 20% of the games I have recorded plays for only got 1 play.

3 - 49 uncommented, When I started rating I didn't always comment. I tried to go back through and add some comment to these games but the ones left I have not played in years and don't have anything meaningful to say about them.

4 - I want to comment on every game I rate, I think the rating is pretty meaningless without a comment and when looking at others ratings for games always skip over any rating without a comment.

5 - My personal opinion about the game. Anything unique or special, anything that surprised me. Typically just a few sentences. If my opinion changes on a game I will usually add to the comment rather than change it.
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I don't log my plays (I fail to see the point), so I had to go through my collection and count everything by hand. I'm sure some of my numbers are off.

I don't rate games, either, mostly because I rarely pay attention to the game rating. If I'm considering a game purchase I prefer to read reviews and session reports to get an idea if it's something my family would like. Or, if we play a borrowed game together I'll ask everyone afterwards if we should get a copy, and base my buying decisions on that.

The only game in my collection that I currently have rated is Zombies!!!, which I set to 10 to try to boost it as high as possible while Todd Breitenstein was still fighting cancer. Once he passed away I reset the value to what I really thought, which is 3. (I would rather have removed the rating altogether, but that option is not available.)

It only takes one play for me to know whether I want to ever play it again. For example: Zombies!!! is a big "No", Dominion is a "Meh", and Pandemic is a "Yes". (A 'meh' rating means I'll play it again if there's nothing else available that I would have more fun with, but otherwise I'll pass.)

I might go back and rate the games I've played at some point, but I'm not really into the numbers, so I probably won't bother. I play games to enjoy them, and for relaxation, not to numerically gauge how much fun I had.


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Curt Carpenter
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Blott wrote:
1 - I currently have 3, and none of them will ever be rated. The 3 games I have not rated are Dominoes, Outside the Scope of BGG, and Traditional Card Games. Since multiple games can fit under each of these items I find it pointless to try and produce a single rating for them.

I've gone a step further and decided to exclude all public domain games from my collection data.
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Sharon Khan
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1/2. I always rate a game after I play it, although I do note in the comments if I've only played it once.

3/4. I was surprised to see that there are 80 games I've rated, played but not commented (actually it was more like 85, but I've just commented on a few). These are all games I played before I joined BGG, but when I was recording plays, so didn't have enough memory of to comment on.

5. The comment is just a quick note about the game, both for me and to aid other players who might be looking for the game - I include a note if I've only played it once, how well it scales with player counts, other games it's similar to, and just a short general impression.
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Curt Carpenter
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claymore_57 wrote:
(I would rather have removed the rating altogether, but that option is not available.)

Of course it is. Click the little red x on the right hand side of the section where the rating/comments are. But I would encourage you to leave it. Why would you want to deprive the community of your valid opinion?[/q]
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Joe Huber

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Blott wrote:
5. What kind of stuff do you like to include in your game comments?


When I had my ratings copied onto BGG, I tried to use my comment as a brief explanation of my rating.

But keeping my ratings in two places was proving to be too much overhead, so I now just keep them in the place more important to me - and try to keep the comments to myself.
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My comments often reflect how well the game plays with my kids (since they are my primary gaming partners). I try to find geekbuddies who do the same - we are a minority on this site, but it's been very helpful to me to see what's worked/not worked for others in my same situation. For that reason, I try to comment on all the games I've played (though I've missed a few that I've felt needed more plays before settling on an opinion).

I usually rate and comment after one play, sometimes adding an "EDIT:" later if the game plays differently with a different number of players or if my opinion changes.
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