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Subject: One Big Push for the OCS rss

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Chris
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Okay, got me, I'll order them again!

Now I can't get Stonewall Jacksons Way II! cry
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Brett Bayely
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I am one of the noob players who signed on to this pre-order after that post. War gaming always seemed so complex and intimidating, yet I'm a history geek and love the subject matter. So what did I do? Initially I bought into the Games Workshop world of Warhammer Fantasy and 40K, and spent way, way, too much on models and paints and brushes and airbrushes etc. etc.

Then recently I woke up to the fact that here I am spending time and money on something I'm not enjoying anymore, remembering 600 pages of rules and numerous codex and errata and In this realization, I wasn't that Intimidated anymore.

Not only have I taken the plunge and bought this fabulous intro into OCS but I bought the Korea module, and ASL starter box #2. I have a few people I know for now ;-) into learning with me, my wife and a few friends from my LGS and meetup group and cannot wait for this to be on my gaming table.

Take the plunge and get some of this geeky crack goodness. Expand your gaming into a whole new world.
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Bryan Martin
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I would be all over an OCS Starter Kit, but I have zero interest in this game.
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Joe Thompson
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I'd have thought there'd be a huge market for single map OCS games. Not just as a stepping stone to 'the real thing', but standing up in their own right.
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Blair
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How many scenarios will be included?
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TankBoy wrote:
ShallowThought wrote:
I'd have thought there'd be a huge market for single map OCS games. Not just as a stepping stone to 'the real thing', but standing up in their own right.
There seems to be a misconception here. Reluctant Enemies is the real thing, just smaller in scope. It has the same rules as all of the other titles and plays exactly the same. The only thing different is it has only one map and one full countersheet (including the generic game markers) as opposed to multiple maps and a stack of countersheets. You will still get the big 4.1 rule book.

Whats "different" is that this title will include a Players Guide and a shorter version of the rule book. This is not an OCS-lite version, just a less intimidating (and less expensive) OCS title.

It's not as though one can't 'stepping stone' with prior OCS games either.
What I've seen is pretty good about including simple intro scenarios,
as well as smaller games.

Price is a huge factor though - and this one lets you pay the cost
of a normal wargame in order to play around with the system.
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Joe Thompson
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TankBoy wrote:
ShallowThought wrote:
I'd have thought there'd be a huge market for single map OCS games. Not just as a stepping stone to 'the real thing', but standing up in their own right.
There seems to be a misconception here. Reluctant Enemies is the real thing, just smaller in scope. It has the same rules as all of the other titles and plays exactly the same. The only thing different is it has only one map and one full countersheet (including the generic game markers) as opposed to multiple maps and a stack of countersheets. You will still get the big 4.1 rule book.

Whats "different" is that this title will include a Players Guide and a shorter version of the rule book. This is not an OCS-lite version, just a less intimidating (and less expensive) OCS title.

Oh I realise it's proper OCS. But comments like: "Reluctant Enemies (“RE”) is a small game meant to serve as an accessible introduction to the Operational Combat Series (“OCS”)" Suggest that this is a one off.

Many of us don't want to play high counter density, 3+ map games, but do like the OCS ruleset (Burma is my favourite game). I think this size of game would sell well, and not just as an introductory level game.

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bunkfoss wrote:
I would be all over an OCS Starter Kit...
Me too.

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Eric Brosius
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Herr Dr wrote:
bunkfoss wrote:
I would be all over an OCS Starter Kit...
Me too.
Herr Dr., you should absolutely get Reluctant Enemies. It has everything a monster like Case Blue has, but on one map with a small number of counters (and with no edge of map effects, since the one map covers the entire area.) It's a great way to teach someone the system, but it's a real game. In fact, the decision you make about one single unit is far more critical than it would be in a larger game, since there aren't hundreds of other similar decisions to hide the impact of one small one.

I know you're a monster game fan, and OCS has plenty of them, but this is both an exciting game in its own right and a way for someone to get started.
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Joe Thompson
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DAK2 can't be 360!
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ShallowThought wrote:
DAK2 can't be 360!
That was a misprint. It was supposed to say 360 DAYS.
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Enrico Viglino
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ShallowThought wrote:
DAK2 can't be 360!
Maybe for a small scenario.


jmp120 wrote:


I'm just going by what is in the BGG entries. Reluctant Enemies says 750 and DAK2 says 360.
Those are as reliable as game category. I remember EU being rated
at some absolutely ridiculous amount (in the thousands of hours!)
by someone who obviously never played it one bit. Reality is, even
the grand campaign is going to be completed in under 100.

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The difference is that ASL Starter Kit scenarios are not that different in size from ASL scenarios. OCS as a system tends to focus on huge games.

Which is not to say that more small OCS games would necessarily be an impossible or a bad thing.
 
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ShallowThought wrote:
I'd have thought there'd be a huge market for single map OCS games. Not just as a stepping stone to 'the real thing', but standing up in their own right.
I'm sure there is a humongous market for single-map OCS games. Problem is, there aren't that many interesting WWII campaigns that would satisfactorily fit onto a single OCS map. I.e., 175mi x 300mi. In WWII terms, that's a tiny area. Even smaller campaigns like Tunisia require two maps.
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TankBoy wrote:
the reprint of Korea: The Forgotten War, which has been stagnant on the pre-order list for quite some time now and has only 29 more to go reach its pre-order goal.
Make that 28 more to go - I just put in my order. (I already ordered RE from the start.)
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Alright you persistent bastard (I mean that in the most loving way possible) I pre-ordered Reluctant Enemies.


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I've already pre-ordered both, but I have to wonder how many pre-orders these posts have generated. Maybe this sort of frequent consumer evangelism could help move some other slow-moving P500 new and reprint titles along?

I'm looking at you VINDALOO: Four Battles from the 2nd Anglo-Maratha War, The Great Battles of Alexander: Deluxe Edition and Cataphract!
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Enrico Viglino
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Sluggonics wrote:
I've already pre-ordered both, but I have to wonder how many pre-orders these posts have generated. Maybe this sort of frequent consumer evangelism could help move some other slow-moving P500 new and reprint titles along?

I'm looking at you VINDALOO: Four Battles from the 2nd Anglo-Maratha War, The Great Battles of Alexander: Deluxe Edition and Cataphract!
Damn you! Lincoln's War caught me that way.

I have too many games, and don't need all this peer pressure.
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Eric Brosius
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jmp120 wrote:
The 750 min. playing time can't be right. Even DAK2 is only 360. Is it supposed to be 75?
You can probably set DAK2 up in 360 minutes.

I suspect the campaign game for Reluctant Enemies will take 750 minutes for newbies if it goes all 21 turns. There's a ton to think about. Start with a scenario.

And Enrico, it will be easier on everyone if you just give in and order it now.
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calandale wrote:
Sluggonics wrote:
I've already pre-ordered both, but I have to wonder how many pre-orders these posts have generated. Maybe this sort of frequent consumer evangelism could help move some other slow-moving P500 new and reprint titles along?

I'm looking at you VINDALOO: Four Battles from the 2nd Anglo-Maratha War, The Great Battles of Alexander: Deluxe Edition and Cataphract!
Damn you! Lincoln's War caught me that way.

I have too many games, and don't need all this peer pressure.
Three more games can't hurt! You can stop whenever you want.

I must say, I have considered preordering VINDALOO: Four Battles from the 2nd Anglo-Maratha War.
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Eric Brosius wrote:


And Enrico, it will be easier on everyone if you just give in and order it now.
I only need one copy though.


I ordered it the day it was announced.
Same with Korea, IIRC.
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DJ Kuul A wrote:
The difference is that ASL Starter Kit scenarios are not that different in size from ASL scenarios. OCS as a system tends to focus on huge games.

Which is not to say that more small OCS games would necessarily be an impossible or a bad thing.
I don't find the OCS rule set that daunting compared to ASL, hence the "Starter kit" modules do have a place in ASL. OCS is daunting in the sheer size and scope of the theater involved but not the rule set.

In ASL, even a small PTO scenario with a minimal counter mix can have you searching all 6 or 7 chapters for an answer.

The "one mapper" aspect of RE makes for quick set up and tear down with hopefully a resolution after a few hours or a long day. The added bonus of the beginners instruction booklet with examples makes it a sure thing regardless of the theater.

I do think the Pacific theater has some battles which would also fit into this one map category. If I recall correctly there is some Pacific OCS project somewhere in the works but stalled maybe. Or am I getting my future GTS games mixed up with OCS?
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The issue is that if you introduce amphibious landings, things get a lot more complicated. (I'll admit that Sicily: Triumph and Folly has them, so one certainly could do a PTO island landing, but it's probably not ideal for beginners.)

Now, Reluctant Enemies has the commando landing, but it's greatly simplified.
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bactrian5 wrote:
I do think the Pacific theater has some battles which would also fit into this one map category. If I recall correctly there is some Pacific OCS project somewhere in the works but stalled maybe. Or am I getting my future GTS games mixed up with OCS?
The only PTO campaign that I can recall receiving any extended discussion was Malaya, but that has stalled, I believe. The problem with OCS in PTO is that the vast majority of the campaigns are either uninteresting (read, inevitable) or are completely the wrong scale — either too short, too long, or too little land area. For example, PNG was once brainstormed, but that campaign has waaaaay too little action over waaaay too long a period.

That's not to say there aren't possibilities, but that many of the campaigns that come to mind get ruled out by the nature of OCS.

The other thing to keep in mind is that, like most of the wargaming industry these days, OCS depends upon gamer submissions. Dean, John, et al. help out a lot with guiding and developing the designs, but the heavy lifting of design work comes from viewers like you. So if you want to see one-map OCS games, it takes initiative from the player base.
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patton1138 wrote:
bactrian5 wrote:
I do think the Pacific theater has some battles which would also fit into this one map category. If I recall correctly there is some Pacific OCS project somewhere in the works but stalled maybe. Or am I getting my future GTS games mixed up with OCS?
The only PTO campaign that I can recall receiving any extended discussion was Malaya, but that has stalled, I believe. The problem with OCS in PTO is that the vast majority of the campaigns are either uninteresting (read, inevitable) or are completely the wrong scale — either too short, too long, or too little land area. For example, PNG was once brainstormed, but that campaign has waaaaay too little action over waaaay too long a period.

That's not to say there aren't possibilities, but that many of the campaigns that come to mind get ruled out by the nature of OCS.

The other thing to keep in mind is that, like most of the wargaming industry these days, OCS depends upon gamer submissions. Dean, John, et al. help out a lot with guiding and developing the designs, but the heavy lifting of design work comes from viewers like you. So if you want to see one-map OCS games, it takes initiative from the player base.
What is that I hear? Discussion of the liberation of Luzon in 1945?
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