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Xia: Legends of a Drift System» Forums » Variants

Subject: Supply and Demand Tracker Variant rss

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There was an idea floated on the Xia kickstarter comments section about the buying and selling following a variable pricing scheme, following supply and demand. I think it'd be an interesting thing to add in potentially, though it would require a separate board to track it.

First of all, in the game you can mine, harvest and salvage cubes that are bought at various planets for 1,000cr each. At the same time, you can also buy cubes of different types at the different planets for 1,000cr for a pair.

For this variant to work, we gotta look at that base line and try not to deviate too much from it, otherwise you break the game. At the same time, it'd benefit from a finer way of counting than the 1,000cr amount. Maybe 500cr would be better, so I'll pretend that coin type exists in this.

First, an example board, using the 5(?) resources as letters. Cubes are no longer bought in pairs, but individually off this board.


Planet Z
[2000][2000][1500][1500][1000][1000][500][500]
Cube A[ A ][ A ][ A ][ A ][ A ][ A ][ A ][ A ]
/\
Cube B[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
/\
Cube C[ C ][ C ][ C ][ C ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
/\
Cube D[ D ][ D ][ D ][ D ][ D ][ D ][ ][ ]
/\
Cube E[ E ][ E ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
/\


The letters in the brackets represents cubes you'd put on this tracker. The numbers at the top represent how much it would take to buy a cube from that slot, or how much you would get if you were to sell a cube into this slot.
The arrows are the 'normal' levels. Each round, if there were cubes farther right of the arrow, it would lose one, and if there were too few cubes, it would gain one. In this way, the prices normalize over a few turns.

So for this Planet Z, Cube A is in very low demand, they have a ton and you can buy them for cheap. Cube D is also pretty cheap to get. Cube B is in very high demand, and selling them will get you a ton of money. C is average, maybe good to buy, maybe good to sell, depending on what other planets are nearby. E has high demand, but not fetching quite the high prices of B.

Let's pretend a ship flies here with 5,000cr on hand, and plenty of room. He wants some varied goods, as he heard something about eggs and baskets. He starts by buying the cheapest Cubes. Cube A is only 500credits, so he buys one, then another, paying 1,000cr for both. The price has now jumped up to 1,000 each to buy, but still only 500 to sell back, as the cubes would go into the slot he just vacated. He then buys a pair of Cube D's for 1,000cr each, which raises their prices to 1,500 as he takes them off the charts. He now has two Cube A's, and two Cube D's, and a remaining 1,000cr. He now flies off in search of a planet that really needs some of them.

The planet card now looks like this, after he buys up the cubes:

Planet Z
[2000][2000][1500][1500][1000][1000][500][500]
Cube A[ A ][ A ][ A ][ A ][ A ][ A ][ ][ ]
/\
Cube B[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
/\
Cube C[ C ][ C ][ C ][ C ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
/\
Cube D[ D ][ D ][ D ][ D ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
/\
Cube E[ E ][ E ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
/\


Another ship comes by, with a cargo hold of 3 Cube B's, a pair of Cube D's, and four Cube E's.
First, he sells the Cube B's. The very high demand means he gets 2,000cr for cube 1 and cube 2, but then the price drops to 1,500 for cube 3. He sells them all, putting all three cubes onto the chart, and taking his 5,500cr for the Cube B's.
Then he sells the D's. Luckily, someone else buying them has raised the demand a bit. He can sell them both for 1,000cr each, instead of the normal 500cr! He sells them both, as he really wants to upgrade his ship. He makes 2,000cr from the D's, and puts them on the board.
He then sells the four Cube E's. He puts the first two in the 1,500cr slots, claiming 3,000cr for that pair, then another two in the 1,000cr slots, for another 2,000cr. He makes a combined 5,000cr on all four Cube E's.

After he sells his cubes, the chart now looks like this:


Planet Z
[2000][2000][1500][1500][1000][1000][500][500]
Cube A[ A ][ A ][ A ][ A ][ A ][ A ][ ][ ]
/\
Cube B[ B ][ B ][ B ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
/\
Cube C[ C ][ C ][ C ][ C ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
/\
Cube D[ D ][ D ][ D ][ D ][ D ][ D ][ ][ ]
/\
Cube E[ E ][ E ][ E ][ E ][ E ][ E ][ ][ ]
/\


Then after everyone else takes their turns, the charts normalize. They all shift towards the 'normal' levels measured by the arrows. One cube is added or removed to try and get them towards the arrow. In this way, one A cube is added, one B cube is removed, and one E cube is removed. C and D are already at their normal value, so don't change.


Planet Z
[2000][2000][1500][1500][1000][1000][500][500]
Cube A[ A ][ A ][ A ][ A ][ A ][ A ][ A ][ ]
/\
Cube B[ B ][ B ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
/\
Cube C[ C ][ C ][ C ][ C ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
/\
Cube D[ D ][ D ][ D ][ D ][ D ][ D ][ ][ ]
/\
Cube E[ E ][ E ][ E ][ E ][ E ][ ][ ][ ]
/\
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Dave Bendit
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Having defined markets would be awesome, but don't you think it'd get a bit unwieldy tracking that for each and every planet? I mean, if it were integrated into the tiles (e.g. each planet has the market printed right on it), it wouldn't be as much of an issue. As it stands, having a giant board with every planet having a market, while awesome, seems like a huge pain.
 
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DBendit wrote:
Having defined markets would be awesome, but don't you think it'd get a bit unwieldy tracking that for each and every planet? I mean, if it were integrated into the tiles (e.g. each planet has the market printed right on it), it wouldn't be as much of an issue. As it stands, having a giant board with every planet having a market, while awesome, seems like a huge pain.


It's more of a thought experiment to be refined

I like that this kind of thing opens up every planet to buying and selling everything, even at terrible deals.

It could bring up situations where there is an asteroid field that produces Cube A near a planet that only has medium (1,000cr) demand, while a planet farther off has very high demand (2,000cr), and can obviously take more cubes at once. So the decision is whether you should take shorter, frequent sales at the nearby planet, or load up and truck off to the farther planet for a greater return on your cubes. Then again, that'd make an awful tempting target for others, especially considering the greater distance.
 
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It could also bring up a situation where that miner is happily selling his cubes every other turn or so at that nearby planet, when a merchant flies by and just dumps all of his cubes of that color at once, wrecking the market for the miner for a few turns, making him potentially seek other planets to sell at, while the original planet's market for that cube returns to normal.
 
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Patrik Killer
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just have a exstra tile/paper on the side whit the planets on and some markers that you move when shopping *the market* easy to make even print out
 
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Jafa84 wrote:
just have a exstra tile/paper on the side whit the planets on and some markers that you move when shopping *the market* easy to make even print out


Yeah, that's what I had in mind. A half A4 sheet or so, with each planet name and the 5 'bar graphs' with the normal level arrows on them. As you buy and sell, they are taken from and added onto these graphs to find the price. Pay the price to take it from a spot, get the cash when you place it on a spot. Easy to understand and see.

With them being in bar graph form, colored with the cubes, it'd be simple to easily compare all the planets in a glance.
 
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Ed Komos
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For a different game I was thinking of a dynamic pricing scheme. For each commodity roll the dice. That is its value. After 5 player turns in a 4 player game (so first player rotates), you roll the die again for each commodity. If it is higher increase its value by one. If it is lower decrease the value by one. Statistically values should cluster near the middle. Still you might want to hold cargo until it is more valuable. You can set the initial price instead of rolling or use different dice for commodities to make them worth more..
 
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Patrik Killer
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I have some experiences with design and art i will look at your nice graf and se if i can make something, i will send a proto-typ of it to you when im done ^_^ in abut 4h ore tomorrow morning (sweden) ^_^
(im not so got at makeing grafs but making them look nice is my Job ^_^)
 
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Jafa84 wrote:
I have some experiences with design and art i will look at your nice graf and se if i can make something, i will send a proto-typ of it to you when im done ^_^ in abut 4h ore tomorrow morning (sweden) ^_^
(im not so got at makeing grafs but making them look nice is my Job ^_^)


Cool!

It's 1am here, so time for me to zzz... I'm interested to see what other comments are here when I wake up tomorrow.
 
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Michael Groll
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Thanks for sharing this. As I said on the KS forum I would love to see something like this in the game.

Here is the example I was referring to on KS:


As you can see it is very simplistic (but still works well enough for my card based worker placement game).

What I like especially about your idea is the automatic increase and decrease of the number of tokens - this is a great addition to this simple mechanic.

But I do not think that managing an additional card for each planet would be very practical for Xia. If however it would be possible to include these information on the tiles themselves it could be worth a try.

I am also working on a card game which will offer something like a Xia light experience (a bit like the Kosmos Perry Rhodan game, but much deeper). And for that game I am tinkering with several ideas for how to make trading more interesting. A pure card game will have no good cubes and therefore managing a dynamic market will be more difficult to achieve. Right now I am thinking about using two different mechanics to generate a market with varied prices (but without much dynamic): The difference between planets who sell a certain good and planets who buy the same good (sellers>buyers=lower price; sellers
 
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Michael Groll
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Hm...I do not know why BGG is deleting the last partz of my post...
Well, here is the rest:

sellers
 
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Scott Lewis
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Wanjajoral wrote:
Hm...I do not know why BGG is deleting the last partz of my post...

It may have thought you were trying to make an HTML tag or something.
 
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Michael Groll
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What the...?
Everything after the "smaller than" symbol is not saved...
that is strange.
*sigh*
ok, a third time then.

So, if there are more sellers than buyers, the price will be lower and if there are more buyers than sellers, the price will be higher (like Baseprice +/- 100Cr times the difference). The second factor will be the distance between the planet that wants to buy a good and the nearest source of that good (like +100Cr per Movement Point).

Both Parameters will change during the game as the players explore new sectors and new sellers and buyers are discovered, but unfortunately there is no direct market dynamic (but I am still in the early stages of the design, so a lot can happen).

These ideas are a bit different, but maybe they can still help you.

All the best,
Michael
 
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Patrik Killer
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Hi
i made a fast one what do you think

i made 2 hexagon spaces to put the marker in
one for *buying* and one for *selling"

just say if you like it and i will make it more nice
this is just the first one ^_^



but i think Darvin, Loath and Smugglers´Den only have one sell ore buy
so have to fix that for the next one ^_^
 
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Nevin Longardner
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This feels a bit like Navegador which has a "global" market. When goods are processed, the price moves up. When they're sold, the price moves down.

I guess the equivalent of processed in Xia would be when the goods are purchased.

A global system would be much easier to keep track of. Would such a system work as a variant in Xia?
 
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Jafa84 wrote:
Hi
i made a fast one what do you think

i made 2 hexagon spaces to put the marker in
one for *buying* and one for *selling"

just say if you like it and i will make it more nice
this is just the first one ^_^



but i think Darvin, Loath and Smugglers´Den only have one sell ore buy
so have to fix that for the next one ^_^


It's pretty, but I think you misunderstood my graphs.

What I posted was the graph of a single planet. Each planet would have markets for all 5(5, right?) cube types. There is no delineation between buying and selling lines, they are the same thing.

Example, explained more:


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Planet Z --- Planet Name, there will be one graph/planet, on a long sheet, or separate cards
[2000][2000][1500][1500][1000][1000][500][500] -- Price to buy from that slot, or sell to that slot.
Cube A [ A ][ A ][ A ][ A ][ A ][ A ][ A ][ A ] -- buy/sell line for Cube Type A.
/\ -- Normal Level of Cube Type A.
Cube B [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
/\
Cube C [ C ][ C ][ C ][ C ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
/\
Cube D [ D ][ D ][ D ][ D ][ D ][ D ][ ][ ]
/\
Cube E [ E ][ E ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
/\
------------------------------------------------------------------------


So to start with this, Cube A can be bought for 500, but cannot be sold here as its line is full (optionally, allow 500's to go on forever, but excess 'wiped' each turn).
Cube B has very high demand, and can be sold for 2,000 each initially. And unless someone sold some here recently, there will be none to buy.
Cube C can be bought for 1,500, or sold for 1,000. Buying or selling more than a pair would shift it into the next set of prices on either side.
etc etc.

Edit: BGG eats graphs.
 
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Patrik Killer
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Yes i understan your 5 cube graf
but every planet only have
1 color cube to buy
1 color cube to sell

ex
2xgray buy
1xwhite sell

thats why i put 2-hexagon spaces ^_^
 
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Jafa84 wrote:
Yes i understan your 5 cube graf
but every planet only have
1 color cube to buy
1 color cube to sell

ex
2xgray buy
1xwhite sell

thats why i put 2-hexagon spaces ^_^


Which is why this is a variant for more options. I said this option would ignore that stuff in the first paragraph.

That 'buy gray' is now shown in my list as Very High Supply, making it cheap, and that 'sell white' is Very High Demand, making it worth a lot to sell there. Then the other things are more middling, giving people options to buy or sell their things for less than their max market value.
 
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Patrik Killer
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Okey

i made a simpler one using some cubes that i have ^_^



first one just showing if all was worth 500
Second one i put them like your graf
Cube A=blue,Cube B=Yellow,Cube C=Red,Cube D=green,Cube E=*pink*
i only had 4cubes that 5th is exstra
 
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Jafa84 wrote:
Okey

i made a simpler one using some cubes that i have ^_^



first one just showing if all was worth 500
Second one i put them like your graf
Cube A=blue,Cube B=Yellow,Cube C=Red,Cube D=green,Cube E=*pink*
i only had 4cubes that 5th is exstra


That's not what I'm describing.

Each letter in the brackets represents a cube of that type. So Cube A line would have 8 Cube A's on it, while Cube B's line would have 0 Cube B's. There is one line per cube type per planet. Each planet would have 5 trackers, with multiple cubes of each kind on them, unless they have very high demand, which has zero cubes. In my graphs above, each letter in the bracket represents a cube of that kind on that square.

Then, if you want to buy something, you take the cube off the tracker, and pay the cost listed. If you want to sell something, you put a cube from your hold into it and get the money listed at the top. Then at the end of each round, you add or remove a single cube to each line that isn't at its 'normal' spot, indicated by the arrow.

Edit:
Though I guess if you used a single line tracker with just a single cube of each color to represent what the value is, and moved it back and forth as you bought and sold them, it could work. The line would have multiple colored arrows to show the natural starting positions of each. Might be a little cluttered.
 
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Patrik Killer
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you meen somthing like this? (it got a little cluttered will make more room cant se so good now ^_^)

Cube A=red, Cube B=non, Cube C=Green and so on
sorry if om slow
 
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Jafa84 wrote:
you meen somthing like this? (it got a little cluttered will make more room cant se so good now ^_^)

Cube A=red, Cube B=non, Cube C=Green and so on
sorry if om slow


That would be just about it, just the hexes are a little confusing as they're all together, and there's no arrow or bolding or whatever that would show the starting position of the cubes. The prices would need to be more easy to see, I can only see a 500 on there.

But yeah, quite similar to what I'm saying now!
 
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Patrik Killer
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Yes it way to cluttered right now, will tweak it and make a nicer version of it ^_^
 
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Jafa84 wrote:
Yes it way to cluttered right now, will tweak it and make a nicer version of it ^_^


No rush! Games not out for another 9 months
 
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Patrik Killer
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10min every day not more


im still not happy abut the placement will try more shapes ^_^
 
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