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Subject: I have nothing to hide. rss

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It's not as if I wake up every morning tense from the worry that the federal government might be violating my privacy. I don't. But I do think about privacy every day in one form or the other and have had those thoughts since I first established an email account... a long, long time ago.

I have never had an email account in over two decades that used my actual name. Even back in 1989 I felt the creeping reality of Orwell's nightmare when I took a job selling pc-mainframe email connectivity products. I established that email account, despite it being business oriented with an unidentifiable user name. I even have email accounts that identify me only as dw@_ _ _.com

My take on the invasion of privacy by government use of technology and the willingness people have to just hand over their rights in exchange for an X-Box live account, a cell phone that allows the federal government to track them and a thousand other tech marvels that really do little more than criminalize trivial every day activity - my take is that you guys are dummies if you think it's benign.

It's not benign. Government surveillance, by it's very definition, is aggressive and not "allowed" unless criminal activity is suspected. But wait a second... you are a criminal. That's a fact. So am I. I came across an article online this morning that lines out exactly why I object to any funding for any "mass" surveillance programs by any federal agency no matter the urgency and no matter the supposed benign nature of their actions towards non-criminals. Remember, you are a criminal already.

Here's the article:

Wired Magazine

It's not that long, I'll quote the paragraph that defines why I think about my privacy and what the government needs to not know about me every day -

Quote:
Police already abuse the immense power they have, but if everyone’s every action were being monitored, and everyone technically violates some obscure law at some time, then punishment becomes purely selective. Those in power will essentially have what they need to punish anyone they’d like, whenever they choose, as if there were no rules at all.


If you actually believe that the Feds having access to your emails, location history, where your auto is at any given time and can scan through thousands of online resources to monitor your daily activity - all that is okay because you think you have nothing to hide then you are an idiot.

Interestingly, the author of the article references law professor James Duane and his semi-famous "never talk to police" video. I've made it a habit of posting that video here on BGG every year, I send it to friends via email, I post it on my FB timeline and now my G+ account. This ain't about left/right, dem/rep, lib/conserv... this is about you not being a complete fucktard and willingly selling your soul (and mine) to a malicious and malevolent federal government in exchange for a few tech trinkets and a low interest student loan.



YouTube shows under 3 million views on this video. This 40 minutes can save anyone untold personal grief and disaster and if you're an American and don't watch it and follow it's instructions, you really are a moron.

Make police work hard enough that the police focus on real crime, not getting larger budgets.
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Good article. I think I've seen a few others making similar points.

We are all criminals and we all have things to hide. Selective enforcement already exists and is already responsible for vast social ills. 95% of criminal cases never go to trial, which means that for 95% of people, accusation is conviction.

The power to find and accuse at will based on unlimited data is the power to target any person you want or any group you want for any reason you want and can lead to anything from "petty tyrannies" of racial profiling all the way up to actual tyranny.
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I thought this was already the case (selective enforcement), it's called profiling.

If you actually believe that the Feds having access to your emails, location history, where your auto is at any given time and would bother to scan through thousands of online resources to monitor your daily activity - just to try and catch you for breaking some obscure law that even most federal employes don't know about then you are an idiot.
 
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Meh, I like my online presence, I like my gadgets, and my ease of use and I don't really care if they are capable of survailing my every move 24/7. Plus I'm lazy, and it takes more work to stay off the grid than to stay on it.

And I agree with you that I'm sure I have done some criminal activity here and there. Downloading a TV show here, speeding there, etc. So instead I will just live with the fact that everyone is a criminal in some way. Therefore, If I just have stay below ballast line of average criminality, that line where everyone lives on, then it'll be just too hard to police, or I'll just have to pay the consequences and adjust my criminal behavior to a lower level in the future. Probably best to do so anyway.

Plus surveillance works both way, the watchers watch us, as much as we watch them. 40 years ago Kennedy got away with a blow job, Clinton did not. 40 years ago police brutality was swept under the covers, today, I can watch it on YouTube the next day.

I like the technology, and IMHO is is working for the betterment of society. Even at the cost of my privacy, which I don't really value.

But you continue to fight the good fight, because, you are used to having some decorum of privacy. Generations to come, well, they will be used to something else.
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slatersteven wrote:
I thought this was already the case (selective enforcement), it's called profiling.

If you actually believe that the Feds having access to your emails, location history, where your auto is at any given time and would bother to scan through thousands of online resources to monitor your daily activity - just to try and catch you for breaking some obscure law that even most federal employes don't know about then you are an idiot.


They probably don't do that with Tripp right now, but I sure don't want them to be able to if they wanted to.
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I have a collection of internet identities I use for different things. Some are obviously fake, other are fake names. I use web proxies for some things too.
People call me paranoid, even though I explained them that I authored a report on internet privacy in the 90's and have been paid for that; in fact that's that has been my only and more than sufficient source of income for a year.

I've tried to warn friends against prime offenders - things like facebook for instance. To the counter argument that you can't live without facebook nowaday, there is a simple solution; fake identities. You do not need to be un-traceable, you just need to make it inconvenient.

It's just like these devices you lock the driving wheel with; it does not stop a determined thief, but he would rather steal a car without that inconvenience.
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The first problem isn't when information about someone is lost among all the other stored data.

It's when something else bring that persons name/ID into focus.

Anyone, anything, or any information of interest to the state is surrounded by an "evil aura" which can infect people who are "nearby". And in cyberspace, you can be "close" to things/people without planning it, or even knowing it.

TV always shows the magic of technology to find the bad guys. But what about the consequences of a "false positive"? We know the answer: just look at the problems people have sorting out identity theft, or mis-classification by the TSA).

Which leads to the second problem. "The Web" cannot forget bad things, and nor can the state. What happens when a lot of innocent people start getting the kinds of problems that ex-convicts have?
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oldsin wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
I thought this was already the case (selective enforcement), it's called profiling.

If you actually believe that the Feds having access to your emails, location history, where your auto is at any given time and would bother to scan through thousands of online resources to monitor your daily activity - just to try and catch you for breaking some obscure law that even most federal employes don't know about then you are an idiot.


They probably don't do that with Tripp right now, but I sure don't want them to be able to if they wanted to.


Correct.

It's already been proven here in America recently that the federal government will use it's power to suppress people who are viewed as belonging to the wrong ideological group. If the IRS can be wielded as a weapon against political free speech then you really would have to be an idiot to believe the same government would restrain itself for other causes.

That's a reality in the UK as well as in European nations. You all know better than me about that but I suspect your governments are just as intrusive and dismissive of your rights as ours.
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oldsin wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
I thought this was already the case (selective enforcement), it's called profiling.

If you actually believe that the Feds having access to your emails, location history, where your auto is at any given time and would bother to scan through thousands of online resources to monitor your daily activity - just to try and catch you for breaking some obscure law that even most federal employes don't know about then you are an idiot.


They probably don't do that with Tripp right now, but I sure don't want them to be able to if they wanted to.
But they can now, as I said. As I have said elsewhere, don't want to be tracked...lose your mobile phone. Lose the GPS you have in your car. Stop making purchases with credit cards. They can do this not because of laws, but because of our over reliance on technology. If they did not have laws allowing them to do this they still could. Want to know what someone has been up to, by the information as and when you need it. It's all stored and monitored, just not by bog brother.
 
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DWTripp wrote:
oldsin wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
I thought this was already the case (selective enforcement), it's called profiling.

If you actually believe that the Feds having access to your emails, location history, where your auto is at any given time and would bother to scan through thousands of online resources to monitor your daily activity - just to try and catch you for breaking some obscure law that even most federal employes don't know about then you are an idiot.


They probably don't do that with Tripp right now, but I sure don't want them to be able to if they wanted to.


Correct.

It's already been proven here in America recently that the federal government will use it's power to suppress people who are viewed as belonging to the wrong ideological group. If the IRS can be wielded as a weapon against political free speech then you really would have to be an idiot to believe the same government would restrain itself for other causes.

That's a reality in the UK as well as in European nations. You all know better than me about that but I suspect your governments are just as intrusive and dismissive of your rights as ours.
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/05/15/politics/irs-conservative-... Does not loom to me like Obama is dismissing Americans rights.
 
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gyc365 wrote:
The first problem isn't when information about someone is lost among all the other stored data.

It's when something else bring that persons name/ID into focus.

Anyone, anything, or any information of interest to the state is surrounded by an "evil aura" which can infect people who are "nearby". And in cyberspace, you can be "close" to things/people without planning it, or even knowing it.

TV always shows the magic of technology to find the bad guys. But what about the consequences of a "false positive"? We know the answer: just look at the problems people have sorting out identity theft, or mis-classification by the TSA).

Which leads to the second problem. "The Web" cannot forget bad things, and nor can the state. What happens when a lot of innocent people start getting the kinds of problems that ex-convicts have?
Look at how private companies react to face book or Twitter comments, but wait...as they are private companies it does not matter. The fact is we are already living in this world, but it's not the government that is keeping an eye on us, or punishing us for minor infringements that are sod all to do with them.
 
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Huzzah! One of those Tripp posts without pointless acrimony and with which I can agree.

It should have dawned upon most folks by now that the increasing ivasions of our privacy by the government are getting a huge boost by corporate America. The key concept is "reasonable expectation of privacy", the meter stick on which 4th amendment cases so often turn.

When I was a kid, a phone was either in you home on a landline or in an enclosed phone booth. Either location gave you an actual anticipation that no one could casually overhear your conversation. After relatively few years those closed phone booths gave way to open air payphone banks at which anyone could hear you if they "happened" to be passing nearby. This required a little bit of caution and awareness on your part if you wanted a conversation.

Now in my late 40's, EVERYONE has cell phones and they routinely have conversations in the most public of venues essentially eliminating a reasonable expection that their conversations are private. Assuming I still practiced law, I can tell you I would NEVER discuss a case with a client on a cell phone unless I was in a private space.

Perhaps even more pernicious, corporations have gathered personal data in ever increasing volumes and levels of detail over the decades. The type of profile worthy data that law enforcement would have given their eye teeth to accumulate. Those data are often transferred among business entities for marketing purposes without our knowledge or consent. Such practices continue to erode any "reasonable" anticipation that our daily routines are private at all. Combined with ever more ubiquitous cameras both public and private, the notion that ANY expectation of privacy exists once you step out of your door is vanishing from the landscape.

Tripp is not being hyperbolic in triggering the often overused literary predictions of Orwell.
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I think the extent the government is willing to go with mass, warrantless surveillance is especially worrisome in conjunction with its entertainment industry toady-ism.

Take the openly-horrid, thankfully-failed ACTA, or the secretly-negotiated successor TPP, and combine them with a government monitoring the meta data of your connected life, and be afraid.
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DWTripp wrote:
oldsin wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
I thought this was already the case (selective enforcement), it's called profiling.

If you actually believe that the Feds having access to your emails, location history, where your auto is at any given time and would bother to scan through thousands of online resources to monitor your daily activity - just to try and catch you for breaking some obscure law that even most federal employes don't know about then you are an idiot.


They probably don't do that with Tripp right now, but I sure don't want them to be able to if they wanted to.


Correct.

It's already been proven here in America recently that the federal government will use it's power to suppress people who are viewed as belonging to the wrong ideological group. If the IRS can be wielded as a weapon against political free speech then you really would have to be an idiot to believe the same government would restrain itself for other causes.

That's a reality in the UK as well as in European nations. You all know better than me about that but I suspect your governments are just as intrusive and dismissive of your rights as ours.


You just figuring this out now? Its been going on forever perpetrated by both parties. Look up COINTELPRO Although Im sure you already know all about it. have a look at other group targeted by the IRS they are not all conservative leaning.
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MaximumPain wrote:


You just figuring this out now?


Why would you think that?

All governments, no matter their ideology, intend to grow in size and intend to keep the citizens under control. I'm guessing I knew that about government before you were in elementary school. We had books and even reading skills back then.
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DWTripp wrote:
MaximumPain wrote:


You just figuring this out now?


Why would you think that?

All governments, no matter their ideology, intend to grow in size and intend to keep the citizens under control. I'm guessing I knew that about government before you were in elementary school. We had books and even reading skills back then.
I think people just assume that as you only seem to ever go on about Obama you do not take issue with 'the other side' doing it.
 
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slatersteven wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
MaximumPain wrote:


You just figuring this out now?


Why would you think that?

All governments, no matter their ideology, intend to grow in size and intend to keep the citizens under control. I'm guessing I knew that about government before you were in elementary school. We had books and even reading skills back then.
I think people just assume that as you only seem to ever go on about Obama you do not take issue with 'the other side' doing it.


Really? I think you unwittingly proved a point I've been making here in RSP since before Obama was president... and that is that the minds of those infected with liberal ideology are diseased and unaware. I mean that only in the kindest and most empathetic sense Slater. You guys can't help it if you're mentally ill.

I post here in RSP on many subjects, even the sex threads. But the mind infected with liberal ideology is incapable of recognizing anything outside the very narrow and restrictive boundaries of the disease. So when Obama (or any current liberal icon or cause) is mentioned in any sense that isn't positive, the weakened mind becomes fixated, unable to operate in the same manner as the healthy minds of conservatives, libertarians or anarchists function.

Once your cornerstones have been attacked, you liberals can no longer see anything but the threat. Fortunately, there is hope for you and the millions of others who suffer - I recommend seeing a John Wayne movie and reading some Hayek for starters.

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DWTripp wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
MaximumPain wrote:


You just figuring this out now?


Why would you think that?

All governments, no matter their ideology, intend to grow in size and intend to keep the citizens under control. I'm guessing I knew that about government before you were in elementary school. We had books and even reading skills back then.
I think people just assume that as you only seem to ever go on about Obama you do not take issue with 'the other side' doing it.


Really? I think you unwittingly proved a point I've been making here in RSP since before Obama was president... and that is that the minds of those infected with liberal ideology are diseased and unaware. I mean that only in the kindest and most empathetic sense Slater. You guys can't help it if you're mentally ill.

I post here in RSP on many subjects, even the sex threads. But the mind infected with liberal ideology is incapable of recognizing anything outside the very narrow and restrictive boundaries of the disease. So when Obama (or any current liberal icon or cause) is mentioned in any sense that isn't positive, the weakened mind becomes fixated, unable to operate in the same manner as the healthy minds of conservatives, libertarians or anarchists function.

Once your cornerstones have been attacked, you liberals can no longer see anything but the threat. Fortunately, there is hope for you and the millions of others who suffer - I recommend seeing a John Wayne movie and reading some Hayek for starters.

As I have repeatedly said that Obama is a bit crap, and no better then any other US president I would hardly call him a cornerstone of anything (other then perhaps as an example of everything that is wrong with a political system that is in the thrall of the well of and business).

I should of course (but I assumed that context would have indicated this) made it clear that I was talking about your political discourse.
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DWTripp wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
MaximumPain wrote:


You just figuring this out now?


Why would you think that?

All governments, no matter their ideology, intend to grow in size and intend to keep the citizens under control. I'm guessing I knew that about government before you were in elementary school. We had books and even reading skills back then.
I think people just assume that as you only seem to ever go on about Obama you do not take issue with 'the other side' doing it.


Really? I think you unwittingly proved a point I've been making here in RSP since before Obama was president... and that is that the minds of those infected with liberal ideology are diseased and unaware. I mean that only in the kindest and most empathetic sense Slater. You guys can't help it if you're mentally ill.


Any blanket statement like that about an ideology proves that you don't understand it or the people whom you chose to label with it. I don't like some things that conservatives support but I do think they have some things right. It appears however that you sir are just a hypocritical troll.
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DWTripp wrote:


Interestingly, the author of the article references law professor James Duane and his semi-famous "never talk to police" video. I've made it a habit of posting that video here on BGG every year, I send it to friends via email, I post it on my FB timeline and now my G+ account. This ain't about left/right, dem/rep, lib/conserv... this is about you not being a complete fucktard and willingly selling your soul (and mine) to a malicious and malevolent federal government in exchange for a few tech trinkets and a low interest student loan.


Useful companion piece.

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Koldfoot wrote:
DWTripp wrote:

I've made it a habit of posting that video here on BGG every year,

Should have gone to a lawyer first, instead of talking to the police.... and I was only the witness to a crime. Lesson learned. Cops can twist anything you say to mean the exact opposite of what was intended. They do it all the time. It is their job. You are not smart enough to keep a cop from twisting the story to be used against you.



Yeah going to the police to report a crime being committed by a police officer probably wasn't going to end well.
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I seem to remember a whoooole lotta "I GOT NUTHIN' TA HIDE" posturing from Red-State Ruffians when the Patriot Act was being bulldozed through. Damn, how the tides turn when someone else is in charge.

Kinda like the Tea Party, actually.
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franklincobb wrote:
I seem to remember a whoooole lotta "I GOT NUTHIN' TA HIDE" posturing from Red-State Ruffians when the Patriot Act was being bulldozed through. Damn, how the tides turn when someone else is in charge.

Kinda like the Tea Party, actually.

Is either one acceptable? Who cares what party is shredding the Constitution to bits.
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whac3 wrote:
franklincobb wrote:
I seem to remember a whoooole lotta "I GOT NUTHIN' TA HIDE" posturing from Red-State Ruffians when the Patriot Act was being bulldozed through. Damn, how the tides turn when someone else is in charge.

Kinda like the Tea Party, actually.

Is either one acceptable? Who cares what party is shredding the Constitution to bits.



Well, it's just funny is all, as we were expected to swallow it down years ago or WE WEREN'T PATRIOTS YA COMMUNIST SCUM, WATCHA GOT TO HIDE OVER THAR?

laugh


Didn't agree with it then, don't agree with it now. Only I'm not swayed to howl about it solely by who's in charge at the moment.
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franklincobb wrote:
whac3 wrote:
franklincobb wrote:
I seem to remember a whoooole lotta "I GOT NUTHIN' TA HIDE" posturing from Red-State Ruffians when the Patriot Act was being bulldozed through. Damn, how the tides turn when someone else is in charge.

Kinda like the Tea Party, actually.

Is either one acceptable? Who cares what party is shredding the Constitution to bits.



Well, it's just funny is all, as we were expected to swallow it down years ago or WE WEREN'T PATRIOTS YA COMMUNIST SCUM, WATCHA GOT TO HIDE OVER THAR?

laugh


Didn't agree with it then, don't agree with it now. Only I'm not swayed to howl about it solely by who's in charge at the moment.


I would like to thank you for this. In a rare moment of non-partisanship by Tripp, we manage to find that comfortable, boogeyman, other-ing. Thank you, Ken. Without you, our happy place of hating based on stark-yet-vague lines would have been far, far away.
 
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