Alan
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Hi

I ve bought Revolution!, and when I opened it, it had one token less


So, first step: What could I do? Normally I would contact the publisher.I did that, it has worked before: Queen (missing token), RGG (badly cut), Z-Man(badly cut), 999 (missing component). Also I bought from lots of them, like White Goblin (rattus promos), repos (Ghost Stories promos) and of course, BGG store.
Everyone always gave me a great support, helping with the problems and correcting them, with different degrees of responsiveness, but at the end I was happy, and I would buy anything from the same company again, and again.

I ve never worried about defective games/missing components. NEVER, until now.

I asked a replacement token for Revolution to Steve Jackson Games, as I would do normally. But I ve discovered I had a problem: I am from Brazil.

You know, Brazil, the place where customs and shipping companies STEAL game tokens? If you do not believe me, I am copying and pasting a response from a Steve Jackson Games representative:


Quote:
The problem we run in to Alan is that shipping from the US to Brazil, we find that product is generally just outright stolen by the Brazil shipping/customs units the cost of shipping far exceeds the cost of the counter token we will be sending you. While we would very much have loved for you to have a complete set of counters, we are simply not going to be able to assist with this.
Shipping to Brazil is a high cost, and 35% of our shipments have to be re-sent whether it be outright product purchases, or replacement items.

Have I read right: 35%? I am in the wrong side of this. I ALWAYS received every bit of thing that boardgame publishers have sent me. I HAVE NEVER LOST a package from ANY PROMO BGG MT. But somehow, Steve Jackson has a bad record of sending token TO BRAZIL, because here, people STEAL missing parts from games, in customs, or in the shipping company.

Also, of course that sending a token is more expensive than the token. Q&A is nice, but sometimes things go wrong, someone should pay for that. In this case, the brazilian customes. Beside that, I am sitting in front of a letter from a Promo MT (2 cards), that came from Portland, US. It writes, U$ 1,10. I DO NOT believe that this is too expensive for a defective product. But right now, I will not argue with that.

Sorry, but I am letting this as as a warning about Steve Jackson Games, specially for brazilians:
KEEP AWAY











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Jonathan Harrison
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Re: Huge BOOOOO to Steve Jackson Games, and Brazilians be aware
Even so, they can't just mail you a token inside a letter?

yuk
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Rafael Castrequini
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Re: Huge BOOOOO to Steve Jackson Games, and Brazilians be aware
Very sad to hear this... I always had good customer support.

I endorse Alan. Look his collection, he got 464 itens and never had a misdelivered item... where are those 35% ??

Offtopic, Ogre's kickstarter was very "nice" to brazilian backers:
Quote:
Pledge $415 or more

0 backers

BRAZIL (finally)! One copy of Ogre Sixth Edition, shipped FedEx to Brazil, plus everything from the $25 level, AND your name on the box (on the side of the box bottom), AND a 4-color “thanks for your support” certificate signed by Steve Jackson. Important note: The "small box with certain extras gets free shipping) offer does not apply to Brazil. We will not send a small box to Brazil, because that box cannot be insured, and there have been repeated issues with packages, even insured ones, sent to Brazil. Be aware of all this before you support at this level, please, because you ship to Brazil entirely at your own risk. (Brazil only.)
PS: the same level pledge to US, for eg, costs $100 ...
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Re: Huge BOOOOO to Steve Jackson Games, and Brazilians be aware
Its not just SJG, I have seen multiple companies remark on how Games and replacement shipments get "lost" in Brazil.

Clearly there is some sort of postal problem there. That doesn't help you though.

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Re: Huge BOOOOO to Steve Jackson Games, and Brazilians be aware
For what it's worth, when my wife did eBay shipping, 95% of shipments to Brazil were "lost" during the Customs stop, so 35% sounds legitimate.

Hate to break it to you, but SJG is telling the truth about the lost pieces, and thier risks. $1.10 may not be much, but if you have to re-ship, it takes more than just the postage, you also have to get someone to retrieve the missing parts and spend time to send it. When a company is big enough to do this, that isn't exactly a trivial amount when 1/3 of your shipments need to be re-shipped, and I suppose it became a blanket policy since they do menton purchases as well as replacement pieces have been lost.
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Alan
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Re: Huge BOOOOO to Steve Jackson Games, and Brazilians be aware
klz_fc wrote:
For what it's worth, when my wife did eBay shipping, 95% of shipments to Brazil were "lost" during the Customs stop, so 35% sounds legitimate.

Hate to break it to you, but SJG is telling the truth about the lost pieces, and thier risks. $1.10 may not be much,
For what is worth:
I bought from BGG store AT LEAST 3 times
I received AT LEAST 5 promo math trades
I received indented dices
I received BGG PnP SS 2012
I received reposition from ZMan, RGG, Queen, Hans, Phalanxs (not 999 - my mistake)
I bought from Cundco
I bought from White Goblin
I bought from Repos twice
I received Twilight Struggle Dices

This is around 20 itens, 3 addresses, 3 cities, 2 states. All "flat envelopes", from around the globe that I CAN REMEMBER RIGHT NOW, and they have always arrived.

Sorry sir, but if you can say that SJG is telling the truth, I must say they are lying, and 35% is bull stuff.



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Re: Huge BOOOOO to Steve Jackson Games, and Brazilians be aware
Hey, does anybody here know the plural of anecdote?


Snark aside, Alan, why not find an enterprising Geek here to receive the piece from SJG, then ship it to you that way? Of course, you'd have no recourse should the piece not arrive, but since you're so confident that'd never happen, it won't be an issue.
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Re: Huge BOOOOO to Steve Jackson Games, and Brazilians be aware
I've seen other Brazilians commiserate on here on the same issue, but from the perspective of someone who keeps getting their packages lost.

So I believe we have enough circumstantial evidence to conclude that this is not a fictional issue SDJ has created solely to piss you off.
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Re: Huge BOOOOO to Steve Jackson Games, and Brazilians be aware
FYI, Brazil is not the only country where packages from outside the country are routinely lost:
http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/03/28/study-packages-sealed-wi...

I have to agree that is seems unlikely a little cardboard token in an envelope would disappear, but I can understand if a company just wants to swear off Brazil.
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Alan
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Re: Huge BOOOOO to Steve Jackson Games, and Brazilians be aware
Barticus88 wrote:

I have to agree that is seems unlikely a little cardboard token in an envelope would disappear, but I can understand if a company just wants to swear off Brazil.
Thanks Barticus.

I believe that the thread lost its way, so I will repeat:

If you are from Brazil, be aware of Steve Jackson Games games.
They do not care about you and you would be better spending your money with something else.
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Re: Huge BOOOOO to Steve Jackson Games, and Brazilians be aware
Moved to SJG forum by OP request
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Re: Huge BOOOOO to Steve Jackson Games, and Brazilians be aware
apotheos wrote:
So I believe we have enough circumstantial evidence to conclude that this is not a fictional issue SDJ has created solely to piss you off.
The last thing we ever want to do is tell someone "no, we won't send replacement parts." But there are some nations where we just find packages "lost" with such a scary-high frequency that we cannot keep throwing money at the problem. We are not large enough to fix the postal system of any nation.
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Re: Huge BOOOOO to Steve Jackson Games, and Brazilians be aware
[q="Rafaelc"]Offtopic, Ogre's kickstarter was very "nice" to brazilian backers:
Quote:
Pledge $415 or more

0 backers
That $415, based on the final size and weight of Ogre, would have been far too low to cover all of the costs and headaches involved in shipping the game.

UNRELATED: I started shipping my book project yesterday and shipping two copies to the UK cost me $26. This is an 8"x8" 80-page hardcover and not a 25-lb game like Ogre. International shipping rates are very high. How high?

Shipping five packages internationally yesterday cost $99.
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Re: Huge BOOOOO to Steve Jackson Games, and Brazilians be aware
PhilReed wrote:
apotheos wrote:
So I believe we have enough circumstantial evidence to conclude that this is not a fictional issue SDJ has created solely to piss you off.
The last thing we ever want to do is tell someone "no, we won't send replacement parts." But there are some nations where we just find packages "lost" with such a scary-high frequency that we cannot keep throwing money at the problem. We are not large enough to fix the postal system of any nation.
You aren't, but you are responsible when you ship a game with pieces missing. If you're prepared to sell games to Brazil (and the Ogre post clearly shows that you are), then you could at least correct an issue with box contents that isn't the fault of the customer, irrespective of any issues with the postal system.

Either that or make it clear up front to any buyers in those territories that you won't support them with replacement parts if any happen to be missing.
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Re: Huge BOOOOO to Steve Jackson Games, and Brazilians be aware
I do not work in the warehouse and do not have the full story. The best I can do is ask our warehouse staff to check this thread.

We have had multiple problems in the past with some countries and no longer ship to those. It's unfortunate, but there are simply some nations with a very high failure rate when it comes to shipping packages.
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Re: Huge BOOOOO to Steve Jackson Games, and Brazilians be aware
tequila_j wrote:
If you are from Brazil, be aware of Steve Jackson Games games.
They do not care about you and you would be better spending your money with something else.
How did you obtain this game? Did SJG ship the game directly to you? If so, they owe it to you to send you a missing token. If you got it some other way, go talk to who you got it from.
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Re: Huge BOOOOO to Steve Jackson Games, and Brazilians be aware
tequila_j wrote:
I asked a replacement token for Revolution to Steve Jackson Games, as I would do normally. But I ve discovered I had a problem: I am from Brazil.
Why is this your default response, instead of going to whoever sold you the games?
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Alan
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Re: Huge BOOOOO to Steve Jackson Games, and Brazilians be aware
EitherOrlok wrote:
tequila_j wrote:
I asked a replacement token for Revolution to Steve Jackson Games, as I would do normally. But I ve discovered I had a problem: I am from Brazil.
Why is this your default response, instead of going to whoever sold you the games?
Let me try to show:

Z-MAN forum:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/898752/excellent-customer-se...
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/891613/thumbs-up-for-z-man-g...
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/642834/review-of-customer-se...

RGG forum:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/671072/thank-you-rio-grande
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/942764/terrible-customer-ser...
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/898265/missing-push-out-boar...

Queen forum:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/982110/shogun-missing-game-p...
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/914057/missing-parts-in-the-...

I/me/myself/ also called customer service of the companies above and some others. I can't remember if in my first time I had a missing part or a badly cut punch board, but I wrote (problem in the production line, maybe it wouldn't hurt a lot to help some geek that got a product that had an "accident" in the factory).
Fortunately, I have never had any problem with any of them. Sometimes they email u really slow, others really fast, sometimes they ask for pictures and send only some tokens to save shipping, other times they send u the entire punch board. But they have been nice and polite so far.

BGG people write to them, I can see kudos from time to time on my subscriptions.

That is why this was my first response to the problem, and by the way, SJG had a fast response time. They did not ask where I bought (CSI, by the way), and they said that they would send me the missing piece, well, at least until I said that I am from Brazil - the country where (by their email) "Customs and Shipping Units STEAL".

I hope that I was clear about why I asked to the publisher.

But I learned another precious lesson: I must open a kudos thread everytime I had a nice customer service. Suddenly, this has become really important to show how I appreciate them and how customer service is important.

--------------------------------------
In the other channel: 2 days ago I asked in the biggest brazilian boardgame mailing list how many people asked for replacement parts that have been sent but never arrived. No one related a problem so far.





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Re: Huge BOOOOO to Steve Jackson Games, and Brazilians be aware
for one thing brazil is where the gracies from ultimate fighting are from. so all the ones in brazil that arent theifs are probly mma masters. so either way you are either going to get stole from or take a beating in brazil. so game parts probly not the first thing to worry about. stay safe my man.
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Re: Huge BOOOOO to Steve Jackson Games, and Brazilians be aware
PhilReed wrote:
apotheos wrote:
So I believe we have enough circumstantial evidence to conclude that this is not a fictional issue SDJ has created solely to piss you off.
The last thing we ever want to do is tell someone "no, we won't send replacement parts." But there are some nations where we just find packages "lost" with such a scary-high frequency that we cannot keep throwing money at the problem. We are not large enough to fix the postal system of any nation.
Except that this is about a SINGLE TOKEN which would fit in a letter.shake

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Re: Huge BOOOOO to Steve Jackson Games, and Brazilians be aware
email CSi, it's their faulty product.
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Re: Huge BOOOOO to Steve Jackson Games, and Brazilians be aware
Have them ship it to me and I'll ship it to you if it is less than $10. Geekmail me for details if this is necessary. I am only doing this because Revolution is SJG's only good game, even though I didn't bring in $7mil in revenue last year.

Your company are idiots for not dropping an envelope in the mail in the first place instead of having this stupid thread. Blanket policies like the one listed are idiotic, and cause far more harm than good. This is along the lines of 3 strikes laws and no tolerance rules in schools, at a much lesser scale of course. The sentiment is the same though - remove critical thinking from a position, and you cause harm.

You should allow someone at the warehouse to use common sense and ship a missing token which is not the same as shipping an entire game or book or whatever other hyperbole you want to ascribe to this situation. It is an envelope, and it would have avoided this thread letting a significant number of people know how simple your company is.


Edit: Looks like it will cost $1.30 to ship a letter sized envelope with a rigid object to Brazil.

Yeah, that is worth potential bad press...
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Re: Huge BOOOOO to Steve Jackson Games, and Brazilians be aware
ohgeetee wrote:
Your company are idiots for not dropping an envelope in the mail in the first place instead of having this stupid thread.
I agree that this should have been handled better. No argument. And I, personally, always approach the company in question when a product has an issue.

But I'll ask you not to attack our staff. Everyone here is under increased stress as we try to deal with more work than time or manpower, and mistakes happen. As soon as I saw this thread I was in touch with people involved and trying to find out what happened.

There are some countries where postal issues happen with more frequency than we would like. That's outside of our control. But our own responses to those problems are our responsibility and we're trying.
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Re: Huge BOOOOO to Steve Jackson Games, and Brazilians be aware
PhilReed wrote:

I agree that this should have been handled better. No argument. And I, personally, always approach the company in question when a product has an issue.

But I'll ask you not to attack our staff. Everyone here is under increased stress as we try to deal with more work than time or manpower, and mistakes happen. As soon as I saw this thread I was in touch with people involved and trying to find out what happened.

There are some countries where postal issues happen with more frequency than we would like. That's outside of our control. But our own responses to those problems are our responsibility and we're trying.
Sorry, but if you can't squeeze another FTE out of a 2.5M bump in year over year revenue, there isn't much room for feeling sorry.

As far as "As soon as I saw this thread..." it looks more to me like you immediately jumped to defending stupid decision making:

PhilReed wrote:
The last thing we ever want to do is tell someone "no, we won't send replacement parts." But there are some nations where we just find packages "lost" with such a scary-high frequency that we cannot keep throwing money at the problem. We are not large enough to fix the postal system of any nation.
Your later posts do more of the same, equivocating a token in an envelope to shipping a book, shipping a 25lb Ogre, or anything other than what we are talking about here: One Dollar and Thirty Cents.

Also, this is the internet, and calling someone an idiot for being an idiot is not attacking them.

Simple problems have simple solutions, I'll even help out.

"Hi Alan R, sorry our game was missing a token. I have sent a letter with the included token and a Something Something Something Munchkin, and it should arrive to you in [whatever Brazilian shipping time is estimated to take +5 days]. We've had issues with shipping to Brazil in the past, so please notify us if you don't get the envelope as expected, and we can try to figure something else out. Thanks for being a fan and supporting our games."

If you get 100 of these Brazilian black hole mail requests a year, that is $130, and ignoring common sense, $45 could potentially be thrown out the window in the name of karma and attempting good customer service.

I would argue that if we take the Brazilian black hole mail service and look only at nondescript packaging that doesn't look like it would have any value at all, i.e. a letter containing a token, I bet it wouldn't be anywhere near 35%.

This just makes our potential $45 an even smaller amount, with each dollar less just being a magnification of how ridiculous this whole situation is.
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Re: Huge BOOOOO to Steve Jackson Games, and Brazilians be aware
PhilReed wrote:
ohgeetee wrote:
Your company are idiots for not dropping an envelope in the mail in the first place instead of having this stupid thread.
I agree that this should have been handled better. No argument. And I, personally, always approach the company in question when a product has an issue.

But I'll ask you not to attack our staff. Everyone here is under increased stress as we try to deal with more work than time or manpower, and mistakes happen. As soon as I saw this thread I was in touch with people involved and trying to find out what happened.

There are some countries where postal issues happen with more frequency than we would like. That's outside of our control. But our own responses to those problems are our responsibility and we're trying.
Brazil custom might suck and it is totally reasonable for you to not want to sell stuff to people who stay there in case the parcel gets lost and you will have to take responsibility, hence incurring a lost for the company. However he has the right to a complete product that was sold incomplete by your company and the least you could do was to at least attempt to send the item once before telling him that tough luck, the custom sucks. You are now telling him that since his custom sucks, you are not even willing to attempt to ship him his missing item. Why is that so? Either way you will only have to ship the item once whether it get lost or not and the cost incurred is the same.

I find this extremely hypocritical especially since you are willing to ship the ogre KS to Brazil at 415 USD and tell them that if it had gotten lost, it would be none of your responsibility. However you are unable to do that for a missing token. Good job.
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