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The Castles of Burgundy» Forums » General

Subject: Comparison with other dice management games? rss

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Colin Lewis
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How does this game compare with other popular dice management games like Kingsburg, Alien Frontiers, Roll Through the Ages, or Dice Town? Any thoughts? Any comparisons outside of rolling dice and deciding what to do with your roll?
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Michael Denman
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Roll Through the Ages really isn't anything like the rest of the games you've listed. It follows the traditional dice game mold of getting a few re-rolls and then scoring what you end up with.

Kingsburg gives you some flexibility with what you get for your die rolls, but the game is going to favor someone who rolls higher a lot more than the other players. You can't really plan in the game. If you want some gold next turn, you just hope to roll something that will get you on to a gold space.

Alien Frontiers cares less about how high you roll and more about the pattern you roll. Sure, there are still spots where bigger is better, but you're rewarded for rolling sets as well. If you like, you can pick up artifacts during the game that will let you manipulate your die rolls to create those patterns. And the scoring is based more on area majorities on the board than it is rolling some great combo.

Castles of Burgundy isn't like any of these. You have a number of options for how you use the dice you roll. The size of the number doesn't matter at all. The dice act more like... keys. For example, maybe you roll a 2 and a 4. So you can pick up a piece only from those bins, you can place to your board only on those numbers, and you can sell only that type of good. You use worker chips to +/-1 on your die roll. Collect a few of those workers and then when you really WANT to hit a certain number then you can be sure to do so. Good players try to set themselves up for ANY die rolls.

Burgundy is the least luck-based of all of these games. Each turn is more akin to solving a puzzle than anything else.
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E Thomas
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Trump wrote:
The dice act more like... keys.
That's a good description. Another way to think of it is in CoB, all of the decision making starts AFTER rolling the dice, rather than the dice results making the decisions for you.

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Bill Kunes
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I've played Kingsburg and Castles and enjoy both of them.

Another dice game to consider that I've finally had an opportunity to pick up and play is Troyes. What it does with dice is interesting in that you can buy dice from other players, you can pay to flip you dice (i.e. 1 to 6, 2 to 5, 3 to 4, etc.), and leverage dice differently than the other games listed.
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Gar Per
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bkunes wrote:
I've played Kingsburg and Castles and enjoy both of them.

Another dice game to consider that I've finally had an opportunity to pick up and play is Troyes. What it does with dice is interesting in that you can buy dice from other players, you can pay to flip you dice (i.e. 1 to 6, 2 to 5, 3 to 4, etc.), and leverage dice differently than the other games listed.
I love Troyes but holy cow is it a bear to explain.
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Brent Wilson
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nate_lockhart wrote:
bkunes wrote:
I've played Kingsburg and Castles and enjoy both of them.

Another dice game to consider that I've finally had an opportunity to pick up and play is Troyes. What it does with dice is interesting in that you can buy dice from other players, you can pay to flip you dice (i.e. 1 to 6, 2 to 5, 3 to 4, etc.), and leverage dice differently than the other games listed.
I love Troyes but holy cow is it a bear to explain.
I think that's mostly just the fault of your game group.

Both games are helped greatly by player aids available here on BGG.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/79534/teaching-and-pla...

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/72718/quick-referrence
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Gar Per
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Speedyox wrote:
nate_lockhart wrote:
bkunes wrote:
I've played Kingsburg and Castles and enjoy both of them.

Another dice game to consider that I've finally had an opportunity to pick up and play is Troyes. What it does with dice is interesting in that you can buy dice from other players, you can pay to flip you dice (i.e. 1 to 6, 2 to 5, 3 to 4, etc.), and leverage dice differently than the other games listed.
I love Troyes but holy cow is it a bear to explain.
I think that's mostly just the fault of your game group.

Both games are helped greatly by player aids available here on BGG.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/79534/teaching-and-pla...

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/72718/quick-referrence
Doubtful. 95% of my game group are engineers who attended the same school - one of the top rated in the nation. And they all have a good amount of game experience.

It isn't that the rules are overly complicated or difficult, there are just a whole lot of them. It takes a lot of time just to communicate it. Everyone has had no trouble playing once we are through them, but it takes time.

There are also a few bits of this game that are somewhat unique or unorthodox. You can't just explain how workers are placed on cards by saying "it works like (insert game here)". The mechanism of acquiring a number of activations is something I've not seen elsewhere. The symbology is a bit awkward until you get used to it, etc. Just a lot of unique concepts to explain. Add in some fiddliness (red dice worth double countering black, can't manipulate purchased dice, etc). Add all that up, and you've got a bear to teach - player aids or not. Player aids are, IMO, only for reminding people of rules they have already been taught after all.

I've taught many rules heavy games - Agricola, Trajan, SM Civilization, Caylus, Castles of Burgundy, etc. I've learned others - Brass, Eclipse, Dungeon Lords, etc. None of them do I dislike teaching more than Troyes.
 
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Rogue Marechal
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Trump wrote:
Kingsburg... You can't really plan in the game. If you want some gold next turn, you just hope to roll something that will get you on to a gold space.
Err, of course you can plan in the game, but you must do so multiple turns ahead (a whole season in broad terms in mind)... Sure, you can take the highest spot your dice allow you all the time if you wish, but splitting your result for multiple options is how you win the game, and don't blame a loss on the dice.

Anyway, an in-depth Kingsburg strategy discussion is off-topic, but it is clear you haven't played the game enough, or at least with the motivation to be better at it... it's like saying you win/lost a game of CoB by focussing on animals and ignoring everything else, for example.

I think approaching Kingsburg and CoB the way you describe it, as a puzzle to solve would be a good analogy, actually, and you have as much info in both games about what will be available in later turns. The main difference is that in CoB most of the pieces are unique, which they are not in Kingsburg, which is somewhat tied in with the possibility (CoB) / lack of (Kingsburg) to control turn order.

So while I wouldn't disagree that there is somewhat more luck in the dice in Kingsburg, there is more luck involved in CoB in respect to the resources up for grab in the course of a game. In other words I don't see one or the other particularly more 'luck based' than the other.

... but all this is missing the main difference between the games and that is the player interaction. In CoB there is usually a low-ish penalty for your opponent if you steal a tile he was after, while in Kingsburg it can be devastating, and a player can play quite aggressively to this effect - I don't see this aspect in CoB. Not that this is a bad thing, but a much more significant difference between those games, which was not mentioned.
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