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Stalingrad Pocket 2nd Edition: The Wehrmacht's Greatest Disaster» Forums » Rules

Subject: reserve marker removal rss

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Kyle O'Grady
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If a unit is placed in reserve, and the owning player decides not to use that unit during either the reaction phase or exploitation phase can the owning player still remove the reserve marker without waiting for the reserve marker removal phase?

Also what happens to an axis unit that has been placed in reserve that begins the reaction phase in the zone of control of a soviet unit? I'm assuming it cannot move. Does it have to remain in reserve (thus dooming it to be possibly attacked at half defense strength during the soviet combat phase)?
 
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William
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sinisterAgaric wrote:
If a unit is placed in reserve, and the owning player decides not to use that unit during either the reaction phase or exploitation phase can the owning player still remove the reserve marker without waiting for the reserve marker removal phase?
[Originally said No, but to clarify:]
EDIT
You could remove the reserve marker in the reaction or exploitation Phase, i.e. release without moving. But if you forget, outside these two Phases, it seems you must wait until the Reserve Marker Removal Phase.

Quote:
Also what happens to an axis unit that has been placed in reserve that begins the reaction phase in the zone of control of a soviet unit? I'm assuming it cannot move. Does it have to remain in reserve (thus dooming it to be possibly attacked at half defense strength during the soviet combat phase)?
There are no restrictions on releasing Reserve units; there are for placing them in Reserve. It seems units in Reserve can be released and used normally regardless if they are in an EZOC. This would apply in the Axis Exploitation phase as well.
 
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Kyle O'Grady
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Thanks for answering. However it is not clear to me that a reserve unit released in the exploitation phase has full use of the phase if it started the phase in an EZOC. There are three places in the standard rules that state that a unit cannot utilize the exploitation phase if it begins the phase in an EZOC (Version 1.7 Rules 2.1, 6.0, and 11.0b). Nothing in the specific rules for Stalingrad Pocket II obviously contravene those rules. The only thing that could be interpreted to contravene those rules in the specific rule book is 1.7f which states "Whenever reserves are released they can do the following in that phase: Move, overrun..." this could be interpreted to mean that they are not subject to the EZOC rule, but given the author's propensity to not repeat rules it seems to me that 1.7f means that those activities are accessible subject to the ordinary restrictions.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, and you clearly know more about SCS than I do, but I'm really not sure about this. Thoughts?
 
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Darrell Pavitt
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Releasing reserves does not grant them any special ability other than that they are allowed to move normally in the exploit phase (or reaction phase).

Since no unit that starts in an ezoc can move in those phases, released reserves are also affected.

You can only remove reserve markers at the start of the correct phase. If you could remove them at any time, you could avoid the penalty for being attacked while in reserve, which you obviously can't.
 
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Kyle O'Grady
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nyhotep wrote:
You can only remove reserve markers at the start of the correct phase. If you could remove them at any time, you could avoid the penalty for being attacked while in reserve, which you obviously can't.
I was trying to figure out the situations in which a unit might be attacked while in reserve. I am still a little unclear about when that might happen. Is this correct:
1)A unit released from reserve in the exploitation or reaction phase has its reserve marker removed immediately.
2)A unit that is DG'd has its reserve marker removed immediately.
3)A unit placed in reserve that is not used in either phase retains its marker until the marker removal phase.
4)A unit in reserve that begins the phase in an EZOC retains its marker because it can't utilize the phase and therefor can't be released.

Also, can reserve artillery conduct barrage attacks in the exploitation or reaction phase if starting in an EZOC?

Not sure why I'm so confused, I find the SCS rules to be very clear otherwise. If you could clarify these points I think I will be good to go.
 
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William
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An answer from an SCS guru on CSW says units under Reserve markers are not affected by EZOC.

Rationale...
By putting units under Reserve makers you're giving up/exchanging a movement and combat phase. Whereas Exploitation units ineligible for the Exploitation phase always get a movement and a combat phase. If reserves cannot be released due to being in an EZOC they would lose an entire turn of use. Now they can be DG'd but thats a lot harder than just moving next to.

Advice on reading SCS Game specific rules....
Usually the Game rules tell you everything you need to know about new rules, without conflating/referencing the series rules. Here they go to lengths to explain about eligibility of placing units into Reserve. And even say what removes Reserve status from unit, ie DG. While it has no restriction of releasing units in Reserve, other than when they can be. The line saying treat as exploit capable just means they can do overruns.

Reserve arty can conduct Barrages when released, same as moving. Usually the only time an enemy unit will move adjacent to a Reserve unit is the Soviet movement phase for an Axis player wanting to use the Reaction phase.
 
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Kyle O'Grady
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Thanks tobrukker, that makes sense. Let me get one more thing straight then. It seems to me that a unit would essentially never have a reserve marker on it during the opposing player's regular combat phase. An axis unit left in reserve to be used in the reaction phase runs the risk of being overrun during soviet movement, but I can't imagine why any axis units would be left in reserve after the reaction phase. Even if the axis player didn't want to change the position of a reserved unit at that point couldn't the player simply release the unit from reserve, move it one hex, and then move it back, thereby ensuring that no units are in reserve during the soviet combat phase? Is this correct?
 
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Lehr
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marque du lion wrote:
An answer from an SCS guru on CSW says units under Reserve markers are not affected by EZOC.
This does not seem right because of series rule 11.0b: "A unit that is in a EZOC at the Exploitation Phase’s beginning cannot move, or overrun in the Exploitation Phase."

Can you give us a link to the CSW answer?
 
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Kyle O'Grady
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Yes, a link would be great. I want to make sure I get the rules correct before my first session.
 
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William
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From CSW:

http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@@.ee6b46d/9929

also

http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@@.ee6b46d/2456


I did come across something new to me on CSW, that a honcho clarified on Reserve units; only exploit-capable Reserve units - yellow strip units - can advance after combat more than one hex.

Given the above clarification and SP2 Game rule 1.4a, I don't think these earlier games were consistent in what Exploit-capability meant.



I could cite Series rule 3.0, but the Reserve rule supersedes it. The view that the Reserve rule makes all Reserve units into Exploit capable units, and as such come under all of the Series Exploitation rule, is not correct.

Its accurate to conceptualize both non-exploit and exploit-capable units can receive Reserve status, and then their use and liabilities are governed by the SP2 Reserve rules. But both retain their inherent classification(for their eligibility to do multi-hex Advance after Combat).

Reserve units are governed foremost by the Reserve rule in SPII. The rule tells you the criteria to be put in Reserve, penalty for being in Reserve if attacked, and the how/when they can be released. It goes on to tell you how they can be used when activated.

Quote:
1.7d The player can release any of his
Reserve Marked stacks at the beginning of
his Exploitation Phase.

1.7f Whenever Reserves are released
they can do the following in that phase:
Move, Overrun, and conduct Barrage
attacks.
It could have stipulated restrictions in either case, but did not.

Quote:
Units so released have complete use of that Phase —just as if
they were all exploitation-capable.
Meaning they can move and Overrun in these additional Phases.

I think the fact that Reserves can even be Attacked and still keep their Reserve status is a good indication they get full use of the Phase they're activated.

HTH
 
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William
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LT,

yes, a sharp gamer will always use/remove Reserve units/status during the reaction phase. No reason not to. Probably a case where if the rules didn't say when to remove there'd be lots of questions. And I play you can remove the Reserve marker without moving the unit during the applicable Phases, for such rare cases where it might matter.
 
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Kyle O'Grady
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Thanks again Tobrukker. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out. Hopefully this game will be hitting the table soon, and I'll be playing the way you described.
 
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Darrell Pavitt
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Quote:
I was trying to figure out the situations in which a unit might be attacked while in reserve. I am still a little unclear about when that might happen
.

Axis units can remain in reserve until the start of their own turn, which includes the whole of the soviet turn.

No, there is no reason not to remove the marker in the reserve phase to prevent this, even is you don't intend to actually use them; the penalty is there though if you don't.
 
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