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18OE: On the Rails of the Orient Express» Forums » General

Subject: 720 Minutes… This is a 12 Hour Game? rss

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-=::) Dante (::=-
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Soooo… I could play a game of TI3 AND a game of Advanced Civ in the time it would take to play this once?

Wow.
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Jason Bloody Purchase
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You can't complain about length until you've ventured into the war gaming forums...
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-=::) Dante (::=-
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Jasonbartfast wrote:
You can't complain about length until you've ventured into the war gaming forums...
Who's complaining?

We're discussing an 18xx game and 720 minutes is more than 2-3x longer than the dozen most popular 18xx games.

I'd say that's certainly noteworthy.
 
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Brandon M
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It also has a 4 hour scenario and a 6 hour scenario, and maybe more scenarios if it hits a stretch goal.
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-=::) Dante (::=-
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mugs wrote:
It also has a 4 hour scenario and a 6 hour scenario, and maybe more scenarios if it hits a stretch goal.
Then it's doing the game an enormous disservice to only list the longest playing time since countless people use the "maximum playing time" filter when they search for games here.

At the very least the shorter scenarios should be mentioned in the description. Otherwise it's inevitable that some will dismiss this at a glance without ever knowing such options even exist.

Interesting bit of information… War Game, 18XX, or otherwise there are only 27 ranked titles in the entire database that have a play time of 720 minutes or more. That's less than 30 out of the top 10,000 titles here.
 
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I played 18C2C: Manifest Destiny for 10 hours and I enjoyed every single minute of it. What a game! I expect 18OE: On the Rails of the Orient Express to be at least the same experience. meeple
 
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Mark Frazier
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Dante, you are entirely correct. I will request an update to the game information panel to list 240 minutes to 720 minutes, and see if I can list the shorter scenarios somehow.

Thank you for pointing that out!

-Mark
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-=::) Dante (::=-
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Ganraeln wrote:
Dante, you are entirely correct. I will request an update to the game information panel to list 240 minutes to 720 minutes, and see if I can list the shorter scenarios somehow.

Thank you for pointing that out!

-Mark
No problem Mark. Unfortunately there's no way to list a time range in the current game entry system, so your only option is to pick one time and then add to the description the different scenario options and their length.
 
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J C Lawrence
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NuMystic wrote:
We're discussing an 18xx game and 720 minutes is more than 2-3x longer than the dozen most popular 18xx games.
The most popular 18xx in terms of active interest and discussion at this point is 1817 at ~7+ hours.
 
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-=::) Dante (::=-
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clearclaw wrote:
NuMystic wrote:
We're discussing an 18xx game and 720 minutes is more than 2-3x longer than the dozen most popular 18xx games.
The most popular 18xx in terms of active interest and discussion at this point is 1817 at ~7+ hours.
And has only 8 logged plays this month.

1830 has more than 4 times that number. That puts it ahead of 1817 even if you go by counting total game hours.

Nonetheless, if you want to use your own measure of popularity to put 1817 at #1 I have no problem amending my statement since the point remains the same:

NuMystic wrote:
We're discussing an 18xx game and 720 minutes is more than 1.71-3x longer than the dozen most popular 18xx games.


Stat massaging aside, I'm very eager to try out both 1817 and the full 12 hour experience of 18OE.

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J C Lawrence
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NuMystic wrote:
And only 8 plays this month.
As recorded on BGG. BGG is effectively an 18xx ghetto and represents a vanishingly small fraction of the 18xx community or play rates.

Quote:
Stat massaging aside, I'm really eager to try out both 1817 and the full 12 hour experience of 18OE.
Both are fine games.
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I had a plan...
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There are enough shorter 18xx games that this is a change from what people are used to.

I'm at an 18xx convention now, and I've been seeing this one get a lot of play, mostly the shorter scenarios which are still relatively lengthy.

Most of the people that I know that are the regular 18xx players do not pay a lot of attention to BGG. I will echo what JC is saying in that 1817 is probably one of the most played 18xx games in the group that I know.
 
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-=::) Dante (::=-
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autumnweave wrote:
There are enough shorter 18xx games that this is a change from what people are used to.

I'm at an 18xx convention now, and I've been seeing this one get a lot of play, mostly the shorter scenarios which are still relatively lengthy.

Most of the people that I know that are the regular 18xx players do not pay a lot of attention to BGG. I will echo what JC is saying in that 1817 is probably one of the most played 18xx games in the group that I know.
Fair enough, but the question is whether 1817 is getting more table time than any other 18xx game at the convention. Is that the case?

It may well be the most talked about and exciting game of the last few years in the 18xx world, but if it's not the single most played game… then it's still not the "most popular".

Whatever the case, you've got me more excited than ever to check both out, and that's a good thing!
 
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Mark Frazier
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Way to represent the 18XX community, JC. I'm sure that will help draw in new players in droves!

clearclaw wrote:

As recorded on BGG. BGG is effectively an 18xx ghetto and represents a vanishingly small fraction of the 18xx community or play rates.
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clearclaw wrote:
NuMystic wrote:
And only 8 plays this month.
As recorded on BGG. BGG is effectively an 18xx ghetto and represents a vanishingly small fraction of the 18xx community or play rates.
Why is this? Where is everyone discussing 18xx and why is it better place than BGG?

BOb
 
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J C Lawrence
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Primarily the 18xx mailing list, and likely simply because it was there first and the posters prefer mailing lists to web fora.
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-=::) Dante (::=-
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clearclaw wrote:
Primarily the 18xx mailing list, and likely simply because it was there first and the posters prefer mailing lists to web fora.
And just to put things in perspective, that list has less than 2000 members, whereas BGG has 3044 members with 1830 alone marked as owned.

I have no doubt that there are many passionate and deeply informed 18xx players on that list but there are far more people playing 18xx games around the world than are represented there. (or here for that matter)
 
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pilotbob wrote:
clearclaw wrote:
NuMystic wrote:
And only 8 plays this month.
As recorded on BGG. BGG is effectively an 18xx ghetto and represents a vanishingly small fraction of the 18xx community or play rates.
Why is this? Where is everyone discussing 18xx and why is it better place than BGG?

BOb
There are file libraries and some resources that pre-date BGG's usefulness in regards to 18xx. So, the 18xx Yahoo group became the primary place for discussing and supporting development of new games.

To me, there is mostly social inertia now, since BGG has all the functionality necessary to duplicate that resource. If you read the 18xx message board, there is some great discussion of 18xx games, a healthy dose of snide comments flying back and forth, and a lot of purely social interaction. I view the 18xx Yahoo group in much the same way that I view Consimworld.

History and intertia keep it.

BGG has a steadily growing 18xx community. I find value in paying attention to both sources. The majority of 18xx players who are immersed in the genre probably pay little attention to BGG, is my impression.
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J C Lawrence
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cornjob wrote:
There are file libraries and some resources that pre-date BGG's usefulness in regards to 18xx. So, the 18xx Yahoo group became the primary place for discussing and supporting development of new games.
There's an inferred assumption in there that BGG should replace such things as BlackWater Station and the 18xx mailing list, that BGG is in some way or ways a superset of those system -- which is pretty much the opposite of my view of those services.
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cornjob wrote:
The 18xx Yahoo group became the primary place for discussing and supporting development of new games. ... If you read the 18xx message board, there is some great discussion of 18xx games, a healthy dose of snide comments flying back and forth, and a lot of purely social interaction.
In my view, the 18xx Yahoo list is a great community. But if you tire of messages about who is attending which convention, or you are looking for straightforward answers about one particular game, you might be better off starting with BGG. If nothing else, it is much easier to find relevant past discussions on BGG, where articles are sorted by game and then by type, than on the Yahoo list.

On the other hand, if you want news about forthcoming prototype games, or discussions of strategy, or comparisons of different 18xx games, then the Yahoo list is more likely to give you what you need.
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daveberry wrote:
...you might be better off starting with BGG.
Modulo the content being absent.

Quote:
If nothing else, it is much easier to find relevant past discussions on BGG, where articles are sorted by game and then by type, than on the Yahoo list.
I find GMane's search interface rather good. Additionally, some of the NNTP newsreader search capabilities are downright excellent.
 
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@clearclaw: Thanks for posting about GMane. I've been storing all the Yahoo posts on a hard drive to have search capability [for still in the works 18SOLO]. No more.
 
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clearclaw wrote:
daveberry wrote:
...you might be better off starting with BGG.
Modulo the content being absent.

Quote:
If nothing else, it is much easier to find relevant past discussions on BGG, where articles are sorted by game and then by type, than on the Yahoo list.
I find GMane's search interface rather good. Additionally, some of the NNTP newsreader search capabilities are downright excellent.
I've seen you make similar comments a few times JC, and it nearly comes across that you are actively discouraging folks from building content at BGG.

The more companies like Mayfair do broad releases, the more likely former non-18xx players are going to be exposed. BGG becomes a natural place for a lot of those players to turn. In the end I suppose we'll see increasingly redundant databases as the content on BGG matures. I just prefer one that has more useful features (such as how rules questions are addressed and that discussion stored).

I agree that BGG has a pretty skeletal 18xx database at the moment, but compared with what it looked like even 3 years ago its improved significantly. I hope that continues. Its nothing magical about BGG specifically, its about the functionality of the site in comparison with the Yahoo group. I find the Yahoo group to be like a stream of consciousness. I'm glad its there, but I find it fairly frustrating if I have a specific question I'm pretty sure someone has already discussed.
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My favorite 18xx game for six players is two games of 1846 with three players each.
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Any player who is really interested in 18xx should pay attention both to BGG and to the 18xx Yahoo Group. There is interesting material in both places, and neither place contains all of what is available.
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cornjob wrote:
...I find it fairly frustrating if I have a specific question I'm pretty sure someone has already discussed.
I have the same complaint, but more so, of BGG. BGG claims the illusion that the useful content will be grouped under the game listing, when much, and often most, of it isn't, and the other content (which is often the more useful) is near impossible to find. As a result I find BGG near useless and declining for game research (18xx and otherwise) and the 18xx mailing list really rather good for 18xx-specific research.

At this point I'll note wryly that my original request of the subscription system, that it trigger on every reference to a subscribed game, no matter what form the container has (comment, reply, rating comment, thread, geeklist item about something else, etc) would allow some address of my concerns.
 
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