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Subject: How Many Interactive Non-Attack Cards Are There? rss

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Donald X.
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Team D20 wrote:
Any I forgot?
I don't count reactions like Moat since they need another interactive card to make them interactive; they add interaction to games but don't increase the percentage of games with interaction, which I care more about. Similarly when-trashed cards and Tunnel only actually become interactive due to other interaction.

Dominion: Council Room
Intrigue: Masquerade, Tribute
Seaside: Smugglers, Embargo
Alchemy: Possession
Prosperity: Bishop, Trade Route, City, Contraband, Vault
Cornucopia: Tournament
Hinterlands: Duchess, Embassy, Fool's Gold (Ill-Gotten Gains)
Dark Ages: Forager, Graverobber, Rogue
Guilds: Advisor
Promo: Envoy, Governor

I count Ill-Gotten Gains as an attack so I put it in parentheses. It technically isn't one, so there it is.

The big category you missed is cards that interact with something shared. Trade Route and City care about piles, something we all are involved in; I empty this pile, that makes your Cities better, I buy the first Duchy, your Trade Route gets better. Forager, Graverobber, and Rogue look at the trash, and we may all put cards there; if I Remodel this Gold, your Graverobber can get it. They don't depend on other cards; if I trash this Graverobber with Graverobber, your Graverobber can get it. You also missed Embassy, which passes out Silvers once.

Alternate VP cards like Gardens are a less direct source of player interaction - they're not what you're talking about, but they do make the game more interactive. To an even lesser degree, any pile that tends to run out does this, or any card that tends to run out piles - we both want Menageries, we compete to get more of them.

We can group these by function, let's check it out.

Help other players: Council Room, Bishop, Vault, Duchess, Embassy, Governor
Help/hurt other players: Masquerade, Possession
Hurt other players: Ill-Gotten Gains
Get data from other players: Tribute, Smugglers, Possession, Fool's Gold, Tournament
Get decision from other players: Contraband, Tournament, Advisor, Envoy
Involve shared thing: Embargo, Trade Route, City, Forager, Graverobber, Rogue

They don't have to reveal Province to Tournament so it's in two categories. Possession both gives them a new hand and does something for you based on how good their deck is.

I've tried to thoroughly explore this space, except for hurting other players, which I am content to do with attacks. Some "help other players" stuff died because people did not want to be that helpful. Some "get data" things were too random. Some "shared thing" stuff didn't play well, specifically due to that aspect.
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The Compulsive Completist
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donaldx wrote:
Team D20 wrote:
Any I forgot?
I count Ill-Gotten Gains as an attack so I put it in parentheses. It technically isn't one, so there it is.
(Possession)
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Donald X.
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Hockey Mask wrote:
donaldx wrote:
I count Ill-Gotten Gains as an attack so I put it in parentheses. It technically isn't one, so there it is.
(Possession)
I think of Possession as just a big funky Workshop; there are only a few combos that let you do more than give them a new hand, and even those don't work unless your opponent buys part of the combo for you or else you pass them the card with Ambassador. Some people feel attacked by Tribute; it flips over your precious cards. But I think the next closest you come to an attack after IGG is Masquerade.
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D Stu
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And also Dominion is not multiplayer solitaire even if non of these interactive cards are on the board
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/12374760#12374760
 
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Clive Jones

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donaldx wrote:
Some people feel attacked by Tribute; it flips over your precious cards.
Surely there are plenty of circumstances in which they're right to feel attacked. After an Oracle, for example, or when they spent $11 on a Herald last turn?

Or when there's a Stash sitting there. Or even when you've been paying attention and have a pretty good idea what's left by a process of elimination.
 
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Tommy Pagan
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donaldx wrote:
I don't count reactions like Moat since they need another interactive card to make them interactive; they add interaction to games but don't increase the percentage of games with interaction, which I care more about. Similarly when-trashed cards and Tunnel only actually become interactive due to other interaction.

Fool's Gold
So another question regarding this: Fool's Gold is the only reaction that reacts to an event other than another interactive card being played. Were there any other cards/ideas similar to this at any point, or was there really no design space for it? I feel like there must be some other event that could trigger a theoretical reaction (another player: gaining a gold/card costing more than X; trashing a card; shuffling; buying multiple cards; etc), but I assume you had ruled these out for various reasons. Did you right away realize that "buying a Province" would be the only reaction condition like this or did you have other possibilities at any point?
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Donald X.
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thelame wrote:
So another question regarding this: Fool's Gold is the only reaction that reacts to an event other than another interactive card being played. Were there any other cards/ideas similar to this at any point, or was there really no design space for it? I feel like there must be some other event that could trigger a theoretical reaction (another player: gaining a gold/card costing more than X; trashing a card; shuffling; buying multiple cards; etc), but I assume you had ruled these out for various reasons. Did you right away realize that "buying a Province" would be the only reaction condition like this or did you have other possibilities at any point?
I tried another "trigger on them buying something" card early on.

Triggering on other people playing cards is poor because it slows the game down; it's not an issue with attacks because you already have to pause for everyone else to do something.
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Tommy Pagan
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Oh, awesome, that makes a lot of sense. Buying things seemed the obvious target but I wasn't sure if there were other things another player could do that would trigger a reaction; the attack thing makes sense.

I also figured Provinces were basically the "silver bullet" in regards to buying. If you do all VP it might be too much and the reaction would have to be weaker, if you do "Duchy" then there might be games where the reaction never comes up, and you obviously can't name a kingdom card that isn't in every game.
 
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