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Dominion: Seaside» Forums » Rules

Subject: Playing Pirate Ship twice in the same turn rss

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Tomasz
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Hi

I played on Goko recently and my opponent played two Pirate Ships during the same turn. He took coin tokens twice from his mat.
It is not against the description on the Pirate Ship card, but it is quite against the common sense.
I assume that using the coin tokens with Pirate Ship card is using the treasure you stole during previous turns. And it is a little illogical that you can take coins form your treasure chest twice.
Is it a bug in Goko, or is it not very consistent rule?

regards

Tom
 
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David desJardins
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You never take coins off your mat. You just get one coin to spend for each Coin Token on your mat. You can do this any number of times.
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DC
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Grand Rapids
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Neither a bug nor an inconsistency. The coins stay on the mat and can be used every time you play Pirate Ship.

Dominion's cards are very precise -- if they don't say to do something, don't do it.
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Tomasz
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Thanks for quick responses
OK - I only played on Goko, never read rule book for Seaside.
Anyway it is as logical as spending money but keeping it at the same time, as we do all the time in Dominion
 
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DC
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kaszkiet wrote:

Anyway it is as logical as spending money but keeping it at the same time, as we do all the time in Dominion


I always thought of the money cards as "investments" -- buy them now, and they'll pay off handsomely later!

For pirate ship, I assume the pirates just steal back anything they spend.
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Nick Fleece
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I look at the coins as a trophy for the ships you've plundered. When you spend the coins for money its almost like showing off your trophies.
 
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Roberta Yang
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Pirates get to spend the same coin tokens over and over again for the same reason that you can keep reshuffling and respending the same Silver turn after turn after turn.
 
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Tomasz
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salty53 wrote:
Pirates get to spend the same coin tokens over and over again for the same reason that you can keep reshuffling and respending the same Silver turn after turn after turn.


That's my point. I can't spend the same treasure twice during the same turn, like pirates do.
 
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Trevin Beattie
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But you can play multiple copies of actions that give you +(X) treasure (or the same copy multiple times with KC or TR,) which is basically what Pirate Ship does where "X" is the number of coin tokens on your mat.

(And by the way, you can also play the same Treasure twice with Counterfeit. )
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Tomasz
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Well I don't agree that it is the same thing .
If you play an action card which gives you additional coins you get them once per turn and those resources are from the card you played.
The main difference in Pirate Ship is that you use explicit amount of money, which your "pirate fleet" stole during previous turns.
And when the you decide that the Pirate Ship retrieves the money from your treasure chest it takes all the money from their pirate resources. But when another Pirate Ship arrives it can magically duplicate the same money, which other Pirate Ship already took from the pirate loot.

OK, it's within the rules, but to me it's illogical.

Counterfeit requires you to trash the card so it's not the same thing (let's assume that you melt one coin into two).
 
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Roberta Yang
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I created a fixed version of Pirate Ship to make you feel better:


Pirate Ship
Action - Attack
Cost: 4
Choose one: Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of his deck, trashes a revealed Treasure that you choose, discards the rest, and if anyone trashed a Treasure you take a Coin token, putting it on your primary Pirate Ship mat; or, +$1 per Coin token on your primary Pirate Ship mat, then move all Coin tokens from your primary Pirate Ship mat to your secondary Pirate Ship mat.
-----
Whenever a player reshuffles their discard pile to form a new deck, that player moves all Coin tokens from their secondary Pirate Ship mat to their primary Pirate Ship mat.


Obviously this version is superior to the printed one! What was DXV thinking?

P.S. never play Throne Room or King's Court.
 
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Tomasz
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That doesn't make me feel better.
You would need ten Pirate Ship mats for that!

Anyway the instruction on the card is rather clear but it doesn't follow the theme of pirates stealing and hiding money and using it afterwards in my opinion. That's it
 
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Paul W
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kaszkiet wrote:
That doesn't make me feel better.
You would need ten Pirate Ship mats for that!

Anyway the instruction on the card is rather clear but it doesn't follow the theme of pirates stealing and hiding money and using it afterwards in my opinion. That's it


Trying to justify the game effects in Dominion in terms of theme doesn't work anyway, so there's nothing surprising about that. Pirate Ship makes much more sense than say... Walled Village, or even Moneylender.
 
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Pawel Pawlak
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Look at it this way: you never know the value of pirates' bounty. What you see on the mat is merely a counter of successful attacks. And pirates are willing to share with you the amount of money equal to their successful attacks in the past. You ask them for money, and they reach to their bounty and give you some. You don't know how much is left. Note the following:

1. no matter how many other players trash their Treasure cards, you always get one Coin token if at least one of them does so (NOT a coin token for each Treasure trashed)

2. no matter the trashed treasure value was, you always get one coin token (NOT a coin token per $1 trashed)

So, you cannot estimate how much money the pirates really have. Thematically correct.

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René van Bussel
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Pirates invest their (stolen) money wisely and occasionally plunder a little more or transfer some of their bounty to the king/player.
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Tomasz
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Those two explanations are much better, thanks!
Now I can play Pirate Ship twice the same turn without any doubts
 
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Steve L

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kaszkiet wrote:
Well I don't agree that it is the same thing .
If you play an action card which gives you additional coins you get them once per turn and those resources are from the card you played.
The main difference in Pirate Ship is that you use explicit amount of money, which your "pirate fleet" stole during previous turns.
And when the you decide that the Pirate Ship retrieves the money from your treasure chest it takes all the money from their pirate resources. But when another Pirate Ship arrives it can magically duplicate the same money, which other Pirate Ship already took from the pirate loot.

OK, it's within the rules, but to me it's illogical.

Counterfeit requires you to trash the card so it's not the same thing (let's assume that you melt one coin into two).


I like to think of the first part of Pirate Ship as the pirates going out to attack other players' shipments where the coins represent not just the plunder from the other players' shipments but also the pirate crew's reputation. If you don't have any coins on your mat, your pirates are new; few people have heard of them. If you have five or six on the mat, you're Blackbeard; EVERYONE has heard of you.

The second part of Pirate Ship, where you gain money for coins on your mat, represent the pirates going to a seaside village for shore leave. If the crew of pirate captain Bob hits town, a few of the villagers will be frightened into giving them free stuff. But if one of the Dread Pirate Roberts's ships arrives for R&R, people will be bending over backwards to give them whatever they want to avoid incurring the Wrath of Roberts. In this case, having two of DPR's ships hit town one after the other is going to be at least as frightening as just one.
 
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kaszkiet wrote:
Hi

I played on Goko recently and my opponent played two Pirate Ships during the same turn. He took coin tokens twice from his mat.
It is not against the description on the Pirate Ship card, but it is quite against the common sense.
I assume that using the coin tokens with Pirate Ship card is using the treasure you stole during previous turns. And it is a little illogical that you can take coins form your treasure chest twice.
Is it a bug in Goko, or is it not very consistent rule?

regards

Tom
Just go by what the card says, followed by references to the rulebooks. The game has some thematic tie-ins, but it's still more abstract than not.

For your reference, they're available online at Rio Grande's site. I'd recommend downloading each one, and consulting the back part of the rulebook where it goes into detail about how each card works. Some of them are truly unnecessary and will have you say "well duh!", like Smithy saying you need to draw 3 cards, it's mandatory, but for others, it brings up points you probably may not have thought about (like Throne Room or Kings Court + Goons), and clarifies some ambiguities (... I guess like Tribute counting multi-types as both, like Great Hall giving you both +2 cards and +2 actions)
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