Recommend
6 
 Thumb up
 Hide
17 Posts

Princes of the Dragon Throne» Forums » General

Subject: A (Dumb) Idea For a Third Go rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
David Hoffman
United States
Cortlandt Manor
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've been following the progress of Princes of the Dragon Throne with some interest.

I was a backer in the first campaign at the $100 level -- the minis would have really gone over well with my group.

I'm not a backer in the current campaign. Yet. It's just . . . okay. $80 seems like "too much" for the non-mini version and $120 seems like "too much" for the meeple version. I've written about this before, but -- to me -- I picture this as a premium game at the $100 price point. That's where the minis were, right? I get that meeples cost "more" at lower quantities and blah blah blah. I'm teetering on the fence -- it's more my lizard brain scolding me for spending the "extra" $20 than anything -- and I figure I'll end up backing eventually.

But.

Well, but. But I had an idea. Kind of a Hail Mary pass. Probably a terrible, impractical idea. Possibly the damage has been done: short of offering the game WITH minis for $50 a pop, the game is marked. You know, like that corner location in your town that sees a new restaurant every six months or so.

But. My idea.

Okay. I'm sure some folks will be only too glad to tell me what an awful idea this is. To you, I say: yeah. I know. But I thought it was worth sharing. And if Clever Mojo -- a company I dearly love and only want good things for -- ends up deciding to yank the plug a second time, maybe my weird idea will be of some help.

What's My Stupid Idea Already?

Reboot the campaign. Start it over from scratch.

Stay with me here.

Bring back the minis. I know, I know. You said you'd stay with me on this. C'mon, let's go:

(1) the game with minis -- $100. Unlimited quantity

(2) the game with meeples -- no minis -- $100 LIMITED quantity

Set the goal high enough, taking into account the MAX amount of money which could come in for the meeple-version so that production costs are still covered by the minis versions. This way, if the campaign is able to fund, you're in the clear. You've raised enough money to include the minis AND the meeples.

Is it expensive? Sure. Hell, offer this, too:

(3) the game with basic wooden components -- LIMITED quantity (I'm not putting a price here, but make it less than $80. My suggestion: $60.)

Waaaaaaaaaait, That's Not Going to Work!

Why not? I mean, okay, maybe it still won't fund. But -- I'm not doing actual math because someone smarter than me should; I'm just pushing a weird idea here -- if you construct the campaign so the cost of the minis is covered WITHOUT the basic or the meeple versions, economies of scale via production should enable you to produce both of those for less.

For clarity: what I mean is the OVERALL funding helps to drive down the cost of boards, cards, boxes, etc. Those are pricey too, right?

So, if you NEED $50k to produce the game the "right" way, with great cards and minis and all that, add X and Y, where X = the max for the meeple copies and Y = the max for the basic copies (again, discounted), and you're golden. So if it's $10k for the meeples versions and another, say, $6k for the basic versions, make the funding goal $66k. See?

No risk of everyone going hog wild for the meeple copies and still being on the hook for mini production. There are only so many meeple copies, and you've done the math. Same with the basic copies -- even better because you'll shut up folks like me who lament the high cost for the non-premium version.

Again: please have someone smarter than me do the math.

Is it possible this campaign will still fail? Absolutely. Like I wrote above, the damage may be done. But offering it like this, letting the meeple folks get theirs, let the basic folks get theirs, letting the minis folks get . . . ours, you should quiet down the noisy complainers and maybe have a shot at it.

The trick is to make sure, as I believe you know, that the funding goal is large enough to account for the costs of production. Basic stuff, but instead of going small, like you did with the second stab at this, go big! Go so big it might still fail, but if it succeeds, then we all win.

Or: dumbest idea this week. Hey, I'm right there with you. But I want this to succeed and right now it's looking shaky. Maybe go the other way and see what happens.

But for God's sake, make sure someone clever does the math.

I await my drubbing for this post with humble delight.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Metzler
United States
Glendale
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?"
badge
"Wuhhh... I think so, Brain, but if a ham can operate a radio, why can't a pig set a VCR?"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Campaign is sitting at $19,000 with 16 days to go to raise 6k. What makes you think it needs a second reboot?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Hoffman
United States
Cortlandt Manor
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's been sitting around $19k for a while. Comments say they actually went down by three backers today. Kicktraq's "estimate" has been steadily decreasing as well (it's adjusted high after the first day's take).

Edit: I'm not saying it's going to fail. If this is the game CMG wants to make, that's A-OK. But I know a lot of folks (like me) lament the loss of the minis. I mean, this should have funded fast, no? Look at their other campaigns. This isn't a question of the game being bad or good is it? I haven't seen any of that; it's just complaining about the pricing and what you get for the pricing.

Figured it was worth sharing.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kolby Reddish
United States
Nampa
Idaho
flag msg tools
designer
the Yellow Sign?
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
slaqr wrote:
Campaign is sitting at $19,000 with 16 days to go to raise 6k. What makes you think it needs a second reboot?


It will probably reach the funding goal, but I feel like it could do so much more. Do I think this is the solution? Probably not, but I think he's on the right track.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike
United States
Olathe
Kansas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I am sure it will reach its funding goal, but most likely not with my help. This current KS is a travesty. LOL! Yes, that is a strong word for a KS project, but I am disappointed by their dumping of the miniatures for wood pieces that are boring. I'm not likely to spend $80 for the lackluster appearance of the new and gutted version. IIRC, they still have not reached the funding level of the plastic minis version. LOL! Somebody should be crowned "genius" for quitting the first KS so quickly. They did not even give it a proper chance. The 2nd go around has proven to be awesome. Not.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Anders Pedersen
Denmark
Copenhagen N.
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TheDarkKnight wrote:
Somebody should be crowned "genius" for quitting the first KS so quickly. They did not even give it a proper chance. The 2nd go around has proven to be awesome. Not.

Official word is they made a calculation error resulting in a loss on every copy sold...
But that doesn't explain why they decided to lower their production run, making the meeples more expensive to produce.

In my opinion it was a mistake to first show the miniatures and then reboot with cheaper looking wooden pieces.
If they had believed enough in their product to produce enough copies of the game to get the meeples closer to the $100 level, I would have jumped on the wagon (although still being disappointed not to get miniatures).


 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike
United States
Olathe
Kansas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
We are definitely paying more for less now.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Chen
Singapore
Singapore
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
While I'm kinda bummed as well that the minis have been scrapped, I'm still looking forward to the game. To me, the gameplay's the most improtant thing, though nice looking components do help to enhance the experience. As for the reboot, one good thing I believe that has come about is that David, Fred and CMG/GS has widened the availability of the game to include more countries in their free shipping pledge levels. this is an important step forward in the game's international exposure, which I believe is something that matters alot to the Mackenzie brothers. Several international backers have also chimed in to support this development. As they say, every cloud has a silver lining. That's what I believe, too.

Edited for spelling
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trent Boardgamer
Australia
Perth
Western Australia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I would have been a backer but their crap international postage pooling basically makes it a no go for me.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
fred fred
msg tools
I follow this game since a long time, but for me no minis = no pledge. I'd be a EU backer and the first price + postage is too expansive for this game, thes second is less expansive but without minis you pay too much for the thing you buy... I don't know how the production cost but the creataor want to sell this game at a price that doesn't fit about the product he want to sell for me....

The game with the mini and the actual price is the only good option for me...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Philipp Ottensamer
Austria
Wien
Vienna
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think he's absolutely right. With the pledges being what the are now, I'm not going to back it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike
United States
Olathe
Kansas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I kept hoping the game would fund high enough that some stretch goal would put minis back in, but that looks impossible now. I am not sure it will even fund with all of the negativity. I even get that vibe from the posts by the creators. They just come off as spiteful that people are not happy with their decisions. Beating the proverbial dead horse, they should have kept the original KS and let it run its course. Now they are just being stubborn... cutting their nose off to spite their face in a manner of speaking. The original KS raised more funds in less time... doesn't that tell them something? I see other KS that offer great bits and they fund within hours... PoDT is probably a better game than those KS games. But no one wants to pay a lot of money for "blah" bits.

RIP PoDT. Maybe CMON will pick you up and do a proper KS.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lee Fisher
United States
Downingtown
PA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TheDarkKnight wrote:
I kept hoping the game would fund high enough that some stretch goal would put minis back in, but that looks impossible now. I am not sure it will even fund with all of the negativity. I even get that vibe from the posts by the creators. They just come off as spiteful that people are not happy with their decisions. Beating the proverbial dead horse, they should have kept the original KS and let it run its course. Now they are just being stubborn... cutting their nose off to spite their face in a manner of speaking. The original KS raised more funds in less time... doesn't that tell them something? I see other KS that offer great bits and they fund within hours... PoDT is probably a better game than those KS games. But no one wants to pay a lot of money for "blah" bits.

RIP PoDT. Maybe CMON will pick you up and do a proper KS.


Except everyone is whining about Kaosball too.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike
United States
Olathe
Kansas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Really? I think Kaosball is doing pretty well. CMON seems to know how to get people excited and on board. They also adapt the KS along the way to make their fans happy without really alienating anyone. I am sure a few dislike some of the updates or changes along the way, but no where near the amount of fans GS did with the PoDT reboot.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stacie Winters
United States
Tucson
Arizona
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
30 hours to go and it still needs $4,000. I think all the negativity has hampered it quite a bit.

Maybe this is the game that will need a third kickstarter campaign. It's quite obvious that a lot of people want this game, but majority want it with actual mini's.

If they kept the game at this price it is now, but had mini's instead of what it's offering now, and had different sculpts for the six different guilds/factions... I'd think that would succeed quite nicely. We all want a nice looking game as well as a great game experience, and for some of us those two things are tied together.

This game deserves the best components possible.

3rd times the charm.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This is Rumor Control...

There is NO plan to run a third kickstarter for Princes of the Dragon Throne. If it fails to fund, it will be shelved for several months, at least. Maybe we'll try again next year, or Fred may choose to re-tool PDT into a smaller game, or we may decide to break it up and re-use the assets elsewhere.

If it does fund, we will print as few copies as possible so it is unlikely that it will see retail distribution.

David
Clever Mojo Games
Game Salute
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
E.M. Proc
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
CleverMojo wrote:
This is Rumor Control...

There is NO plan to run a third kickstarter for Princes of the Dragon Throne. If it fails to fund, it will be shelved for several months, at least. Maybe we'll try again next year, or Fred may choose to re-tool PDT into a smaller game, or we may decide to break it up and re-use the assets elsewhere.

If it does fund, we will print as few copies as possible so it is unlikely that it will see retail distribution.

David
Clever Mojo Games
Game Salute


This game not getting to print would be really unfortunate... While I understand the need to possibly shelve it for awhile if it doesn't fund this time, I would hate to see it never come back up...

n/m... woohoo, funded!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.