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Subject: Card List & Analysis: #17 Army Mutiny rss

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Last week, I had this played against me (Spain) at the end of turn 3 to take away VPs from my holding of Rome and Naples. I played a 3 CP card, my last card, to save my Regulars but having Unrest placed in Rome and Naples knocked me down 2 VPs. I ended up with 24 points and the game goes on!
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Tylor Hobbs
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It's also dangerous to leave this as the last card in your hand. In one game, the Ottomans were holding this card in reserve when they got hit by Witchcraft.

But honestly, anything which can steal a card (ie. Black Queen, Tenth Penny, Puritans) can do some real damage if this is the only card remaining in your hand.
 
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Juanjo Gómez
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Quote:
The effects of a capital being in unrest during winter are: 1) all troops that have to return to the capital are annihilated,
I don´t find this in the rules. In page 32 of the rulebook i read this:

Quote:
1.Check stacking violations: (...)The stack takes attrition (see above) if its path must cross or end on a space in unrest or not under friendly control.
And the same in "2. Return Units"

Then, why "all troops that have to return to the (unrested) capital are annihilated"?

I can find the rule or faq...Could you tell me this rule or faq?

Thank you so much in advance.

P.S: Excellent analysis of the cards! Thank you again, William.
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Kristian Thy
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UpstateGamer wrote:
1) all troops that have to return to the capital are annihilated
As Juanjo points out, this should read 1) half the troops that have to return to the capital are annihilated.
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Kristian Thy
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UpstateGamer wrote:
My mistake. I thought that you could never winter in a space not under friendly control.
You can't, but unrest doesn't change control.
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William Bentley
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This card can be nothing short of devastating. Be very afraid. I've seen it played against a power with no card left, so I was already wary. In my case as Ottoman, Spanish KSJ took my last reserve card (Sultan's Harem-5CP) and HR played Mutiny. This cost me 6regs at a siege of Szigetvar, broke the siege with Mehmed retreating alone to Buda. Then the unrest of adjacent (occupied) Belgrade cost me 2VP and a card, not to mention the SD problems this raises. I think this card is overpowered. Is there some historical event from the time period it seeks to represent? That play has doomed O in T1 of my game. The unrest in an occupied home key to boot is insult upon injury.
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Max DuBoff
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rievler wrote:
I think this card is overpowered.
I'm of the same mind. I wouldn't say any card in HIS holds a candle to Army Mutiny (except maybe Treachery, of course, but that's also in VQ). I will admit that Army Mutiny isn't always super-potent, but it is too often.
 
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Steven
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From what I can find the most famous mutiny in Western Europe during this time period was the Spanish army of Flanders. So violent and brutal that it temporarily united the Netherlands.

The Ottoman Janissaries had a pretty notorious history of rebelling too.
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Kristian Thy
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SW_Cygnus wrote:
From what I can find the most famous mutiny in Western Europe during this time period was the Spanish army of Flanders. So violent and brutal that it temporarily united the Netherlands.
It also has its own event, so it's not that applicable as a justification for Army Mutiny
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William Bentley
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turbothy wrote:
SW_Cygnus wrote:
From what I can find the most famous mutiny in Western Europe during this time period was the Spanish army of Flanders. So violent and brutal that it temporarily united the Netherlands.
It also has its own event, so it's not that applicable as a justification for Army Mutiny
Agreed. Spanish Pay Ships and Sack! represent the Netherlands event. I'm not arguing against the card's existence, merely that is overpowered. I knew the danger, but was robbed of my last card with KSJ and then Army Mutiny destroyed all offensive threat from the Ottoman in T1 as I attacked HR.
I had an amazingly powerful opening hand (5 5CP cards plus Storms)and felt compelled to give this a shot. Now O is the "sick man of Europe" 300 years early. I think the unrest in adjacent space (even if occupied) makes a killer card potentially a game changer. Surely, this came up in play-testing. Am curious as to any debate on the strength of Army Mutiny in play test.
 
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Max DuBoff
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rievler wrote:
turbothy wrote:
SW_Cygnus wrote:
From what I can find the most famous mutiny in Western Europe during this time period was the Spanish army of Flanders. So violent and brutal that it temporarily united the Netherlands.
It also has its own event, so it's not that applicable as a justification for Army Mutiny
Agreed. Spanish Pay Ships and Sack! represent the Netherlands event.
Isn't that represented by Spanish Fury...?
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Steven
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rievler wrote:
turbothy wrote:
SW_Cygnus wrote:
From what I can find the most famous mutiny in Western Europe during this time period was the Spanish army of Flanders. So violent and brutal that it temporarily united the Netherlands.
It also has its own event, so it's not that applicable as a justification for Army Mutiny
Agreed. Spanish Pay Ships and Sack! represent the Netherlands event. I'm not arguing against the card's existence, merely that is overpowered. I knew the danger, but was robbed of my last card with KSJ and then Army Mutiny destroyed all offensive threat from the Ottoman in T1 as I attacked HR.
I had an amazingly powerful opening hand (5 5CP cards plus Storms)and felt compelled to give this a shot. Now O is the "sick man of Europe" 300 years early. I think the unrest in adjacent space (even if occupied) makes a killer card potentially a game changer. Surely, this came up in play-testing. Am curious as to any debate on the strength of Army Mutiny in play test.
It's also worth noting that in a previous game, where I was the Ottomans, I played army mutiny followed-up with a treasure against the HRE to obliterate 8-10 Mercs and put Vienna under siege. I took Vienna and Prague but couldn't win because most of the other players stopped making deals with me and even played events to help the HRE.

This is not to say that Army Mutiny is not powerful, but that the rest of the board should react to the board situation. Even your T1 disaster can be survived I think.
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Kristian Thy
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MD1616 wrote:
Isn't that represented by Spanish Fury...?
Spanish Pay Ships Seized is the event that created the conditions for the Spanish Fury.

Sack! is a generic event.
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turbothy wrote:
MD1616 wrote:
Isn't that represented by Spanish Fury...?
Spanish Pay Ships Seized is the event that created the conditions for the Spanish Fury.

Sack! is a generic event.
Thanks for the clarification.
 
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With the Original Poster having deleted his account (and thus deleting his post) I went ahead and scanned a hard copy I had on hand and have uploaded it to the Virgin Queen File section as a pdf. It's really good stuff and well worth a read.

***You can find it here.***


The pdf has all of the non-home cards in a single document. So, it's not split up 5-16 or whatever.
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