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Subject: Snowden and China rss

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Paul W
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So, in case anyone hasn't heard the latest updates, Snowden's now talking about NSA efforts to hack into Chinese networks and collect information like text messages. Here's a sample article:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2013/06/22/u-s-hacked-...

Personally, this kind of move really changes the situation for me. The real news in the original story was not that the NSA was gaining access to private communications information: their a signal intelligence agency, that's their job. It was that they were directing those efforts domestically, when their mission is specifically foreign intelligence.

I'm not qualified to assess the value of the information Snowden's released about NSA efforts in China, or the damage caused by it, but whereas I think the leaks about domestic surveillance were valid whistleblowing, this sort of revelation seems so serve no purpose but to harm US interests, and I think the US would be right to go after him for such revelations. The NSA exists because we believe that having a foreign signals intelligence apparatus is a valuable thing, and disliking that it not in and of itself a valid excuse for releasing information about the affairs of the NSA (as opposed to the domestic telecommunications examples, where the NSA was engaged in activites that go far beyond their mission/intended reach). If Snowden had stopped at the revelations about domestic telecoms, I'd be on his side, but with these revelations, while it's most important that the NSA be taken to task for their domestic surveillance activities, I also think that Snowden should be arrested and tried for his later revelations, which have nothing to do with protecting US rights or interests.
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Boaty McBoatface
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This did the rounds about a week ago.
 
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casey r lowe
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he put his information on the free market and china paid the best price WHY ARE YOU SO UPSET
 
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Paul W
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slatersteven wrote:
This did the rounds about a week ago.


Given that the specific information I'm referencing information came out in the last 24 hours...no, it didn't. There was some vague references made previously, but these are statements from Snowden himself, which the paper says are backed by provided documents.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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fizzmore wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
This did the rounds about a week ago.


Given that the specific information I'm referencing information came out in the last 24 hours...no, it didn't. There was some vague references made previously, but these are statements from Snowden himself, which the paper says are backed by provided documents.
Or to put it another way, it was known about but now he had admitted it (except he told the Chinese press about this 9 days ago http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1259508/edward-sn...).
 
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M@tthijs
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Heard a news show presenter here on the radio today: "If Snowden is afraid and doesn't want to appear for an American judge, it seems the best place to hide is Guantanamo Bay!"

laugh
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Adrian Hague
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_Kael_ wrote:
Heard a news show presenter here on the radio today: "If Snowden is afraid and doesn't want to appear for an America judge, it seems the best place to hide is Guantanamo Bay!"

laugh

I hear the cuisine there sucks. gulp
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Moshe Callen
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ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
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μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
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AdrianPHague wrote:
_Kael_ wrote:
Heard a news show presenter here on the radio today: "If Snowden is afraid and doesn't want to appear for an America judge, it seems the best place to hide is Guantanamo Bay!"

laugh

I hear the cuisine there sucks. gulp

Still, I've heard they let you rock all night long. Of course, the music is played so long you can't sleep for days at a time even if it is good music but well that's the price you pay for rock 'n roll.

Anyone who takes that seriously for even a second is making themself into an idiot.
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casey r lowe
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now we only need the libertarian asking why anyone chooses to be a terrorist in captivity
 
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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fizzmore wrote:
...while it's most important that the NSA be taken to task for their domestic surveillance activities...


I don't agree, I think Congress needs to be taken to task for giving the NSA the legal tool to do it. Intelligence types are going to use whatever tools are necessary to keep people from being killed and also to kill alleged and/or actual dangerous people. It's Congress's job to give them legal tools that protect our rights at the same time.

All Snowden did was point out a truth that too many people were in denial about, either because they didn't want to be seen as soft on terrorism or because they were caught up in the witch hunt frenzy in the months after 9-11. Confirming what critics have been shouting into deaf ears doesn't make you a hero, it just makes you newly enlightened.

Now he has proven himself to be an opportunist and a mercenary.
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J
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TheChin! wrote:
It's Congress's job to give them legal tools that protect our rights at the same time.

And the oversight powers to make sure they are staying within the laws as they were setup.
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Paul W
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Koldfoot wrote:
I believe there is an active operation to discredit Snowden in the press by the government.

IF we ever find out the real story, it won't be for several decades.

I'm inclined to believe the government is overreaching and out of control, and Snowden is a patriot. No doubt he has faults, not unlike any of us. Hopefully, his sacrifice will not be wasted on an American populace that just doesn't care that the gov't is out of control.

My only regret is that there is not a Republican in the White House. If there was, the press would be all over it hoping to get the lead that would turn this into another Watergate scandal. As is, the press is too closely allied with the party in power. They will have to be lead kicking and screaming to the evidence that would bring the President down. Even then they would be reluctant to publish it.


One doesn't have to believe that everything Snowden has done has been great to believe that the NSA has overreached. Do you have any reason to believe that Snowden's statements aren't accurate? What motivation would the South China Morning Post have to discredit Snowden?
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J
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fizzmore wrote:
What motivation would the South China Morning Post have to discredit Snowden?

The Chinese press is allied with Obama too, of course. It's the New World Order coming to pass. If only Romney had won, he would have been able to save us all...
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J
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utoption2 wrote:
Save us from what?

I don't know, my ability to fake post conspiracy theory nut job rambles failed then.
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casey r lowe
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Koldfoot wrote:
My only regret is that there is not a Republican in the White House. If there was, the press would be all over it hoping to get the lead that would turn this into another Watergate scandal. As is, the press is too closely allied with the party in power. They will have to be lead kicking and screaming to the evidence that would bring the President down. Even then they would be reluctant to publish it.

yeah i remember how critical "the press" was when W started too wars
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J
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I only listen to NPR, I only ever tune to AM for the Hi-way traffic advisories.
 
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M@tthijs
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single sentences wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
My only regret is that there is not a Republican in the White House. If there was, the press would be all over it hoping to get the lead that would turn this into another Watergate scandal. As is, the press is too closely allied with the party in power. They will have to be lead kicking and screaming to the evidence that would bring the President down. Even then they would be reluctant to publish it.

yeah i remember how critical "the press" was when W started too wars
...started too wars, started two wars or started to wars?

Spoiler (click to reveal)
foreign spelling nazi alert
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Boaty McBoatface
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Koldfoot wrote:
I believe there is an active operation to discredit Snowden in the press by the government.

IF we ever find out the real story, it won't be for several decades.

I'm inclined to believe the government is overreaching and out of control, and Snowden is a patriot. No doubt he has faults, not unlike any of us. Hopefully, his sacrifice will not be wasted on an American populace that just doesn't care that the gov't is out of control.

My only regret is that there is not a Republican in the White House. If there was, the press would be all over it hoping to get the lead that would turn this into another Watergate scandal. As is, the press is too closely allied with the party in power. They will have to be lead kicking and screaming to the evidence that would bring the President down. Even then they would be reluctant to publish it.
Yep, I mean the press being all over it made such a difference under Bush.

I do like the idea that some so hate Obama they will defend the actions of a man who has tried to sell (for security) intelligence secrets to hostile foreign powers (according to those same people they are hostile) is a patriot (but then so was Oliver North i suppose).
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Boaty McBoatface
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_Kael_ wrote:
single sentences wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
My only regret is that there is not a Republican in the White House. If there was, the press would be all over it hoping to get the lead that would turn this into another Watergate scandal. As is, the press is too closely allied with the party in power. They will have to be lead kicking and screaming to the evidence that would bring the President down. Even then they would be reluctant to publish it.

yeah i remember how critical "the press" was when W started too wars
...started too wars, started two wars or started to wars?
:p
Spoiler (click to reveal)
foreign spelling nazi alert
You right, he started too many wars.
 
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Thomas Schandl
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