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Napoleon: The Waterloo Campaign, 1815» Forums » Rules

Subject: Is battle a game turn? rss

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Lee Hancox
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if during a battle the anglo/dutch or the Prussians, fall below the number that designates collapse of the army does the battle end completely then and there? Where all the collapsed army are removed and the french return to the game? or do you carry on the battle until you cause a rout taking damage as you go?
 
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Mark Gray
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I believe the rules state that when a side is reduced to "x" units, they surrender. I take this to mean immediately.
 
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Gary Pressler
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From the Columbia Games rulebook...

Quote:
12.0 Victory ... Defeats are effective only after all battles in the current Campaign Turn are resolved. All remaining units of a defeated army are eliminated.


I didn't post the previous section that lists how many units constitute a defeat for each army, as that should differ in the AH version. Still, I presume the rule above holds true for both.
 
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Lee Hancox
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It does make a big impact on the game.
We had a HUGE battle for Brussels, and once I had dropped below 7 we could have ended the battle, but we played on as the rules stated 'below x at the end of a game turn'. Since there can be a number of battle turns within a game turn we read that as once committed to battle you fought it out and then re-assessed the numbers at the end of the turn.
So maybe this IS the AH rule and it was changed for later prints. By not ending the battle when i dropped to 7, I was still able to inflict heavy damage on the French before he routed. He was then unable to attack the Prussians with any great strength due to the losses.
 
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Gary Pressler
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Again, I don't know the AH rules, but I think your interpretation was absolutely correct that 'below x at the end of a game turn' means after all battles have been fought to completion. (Getting back to your root question, a Game/Campaign Turn is not the same as a Battle/Combat Turn.) That is certainly spelled out clearly in the CG rules. The reasoning and effect are just as you mentioned. If an Allied army reaches their loss limit, the units involved still fight to the bitter end, either giving the other Allied army a better chance or causing the French to fall below their own loss limit. Remember that there are no draws in this game. If the French are defeated, the Allies win, even if the last Allied army suffers simultaneous defeat.
 
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Lee Hancox
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Hi Gary,
the problem we have encoutered is this:
First game, I played allies and we played the wrong rules allowing the cavalery to fire as they engaged, so they had huge power against my units, i got stomped. Second play we played the right rules and I used a couple of cav to hold up the french and then went and sat around brussels, alost, ghent and waited for the french to arrive. Some poor dice rolling by france early set for a long battle in Brussels that exhausted his supplies.

France eventually won the battle of Brussels, but by the time he routed me I had inflicted huge damage. Meantime not one Prussian had been involved.

The french player announced that he could see any way to win, if the allies camped in Brussels, Alost and Ghent. I have a couple of ideas to try and beat that, but has the new release changed much so that camping in that area is not as effective as it is in the AH version?
 
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Gary Pressler
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I really lack the experience to really say. My understanding, reinforced by my few games, is that the Allies cannot simply "camp" in the cities and expect a win. They need to use delaying tactics, as you did, and avoid all-out battle until in or just outside the cities. However, an experienced French player will be able to judge how many units to devote to one Allied city to capture it and start supply attrition, while advancing the rest of the troops towards the second Ally. Certainly, if the French send everything to Ghent, they are not going to have time to reach and wipe out the Prussians, given that the Prussians send a few units out to delay.

Some have said the historical order of battle helps prevent the Allies from just sitting around in the cities, but that may be in reference only to the CG 3rd edition. Also, the Allies are generally understood to have the advantage. Thus, in tournaments, the players usually bid a number of pre-game step reductions to get the Allies. I'm not sure what typical bids are for either edition. If you really want to learn some strategies for both sides, I'm sure the session reports here would help. I'm fairly certain the championship games at the World Boardgaming Championships are also documented for your perusal.

Man, I need to play this more.
 
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Matthew Webster
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The AH rules are quite clear on this, "Each national army is defeated when at the end of any game turn it has lost half or more of its units" (their italics). This is exactly the situation we had in the last session (which you will be able to read shortly) although the Anglo-Dutch casualty that would have caused the army to be eliminated resulted in a rout.

In my (brief) experience there are only 2 occasions when camping succeeded for the allies. Firstly if the French advance is too slow and the supply centres are occupied too late in the campaign. Secondly if the French engage only one army so no casualties are incurred by the other.
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