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Viticulture» Forums » Rules

Subject: Year end - Aging the grapes rss

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Fabien BĂ©nistant
France
Montpellier
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Hi !

I really don't like the rule of aging the grapes at the end of the year (+1 to the grape's value), because it doesn't seem logical and realistic for me.

Wouldn't it be better to keep the same value for the grapes or even to reduce their value (reflecting grape's decay) at the end of the year ? What's your opinion about that ?

Also, is it normal that the value of grapes exceeds the capacity of the cellar while wine tokens can't do ?

Thanks for your answers.
Fabien.
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I've always thought of it as aging the wine in barrels which is thematic. Granted, the wine is usually blended before it's aged, so the order of things is screwy.

I know the designer has commented about grapes aging. The change was made to maintain the design.
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Josh Lacey
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Esperluette wrote:
Hi !

I really don't like the rule of aging the grapes at the end of the year (+1 to the grape's value), because it doesn't seem logical and realistic for me.

Wouldn't it be better to keep the same value for the grapes or even to reduce their value (reflecting grape's decay) at the end of the year ? What's your opinion about that ?

Also, is it normal that the value of grapes exceeds the capacity of the cellar while wine tokens can't do ?

Thanks for your answers.
Fabien.
Just like you never let the truth ruin a good story, playability should outweigh fact on occasion in board games.

The fact is you are spot on...but doing this would slow the game down well beyond the intended scope. and Also adding 2 pinot grapes and a syrah together doesn't inherently make a better wine than one that game from just one Pinot vine.

Heck it's even in the Twilight Struggle rulebook. In some cases where realism and playability clash they side with playability.
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Jamey Stegmaier
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Fabien--The early versions of Viticulture (during playtesting) had grapes not aging, because, as you said, it's not thematically correct. In fact, the earliest version made players discard grapes they didn't use after a full year passed, indicating that they had gone bad. So if you didn't crush grapes that year, you lost all grapes you had harvested. That wasn't fun at all.

So we changed it so you didn't lose the grapes, but that they didn't age...and that didn't work either, because those grapes blocked new grapes from getting onto the crushpad.

Finally we made the un-thematic decision to make the grapes age, and it works so, so much better. Not only is the game more fun that way, but it also leads to more strategy in terms of the value of the vines you plant (so that they don't overlap with one another when you harvest) and the timing of when you decide to crush.
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Fabien BĂ©nistant
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Ok thanks for your answer !
 
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Great to see this thread - we were also wondering whether aging the grapes was thematic.

I'm curious to hear from someone who knows more about real-life wine-making than I do (I'm pretty clueless about the process). How does this work in real life? i.e. how quickly are grapes normally crushed and turned into wine? Can they be stored at all? Or does the wine-making process have to happen fairly promptly after grapes are picked? Is this a matter of days/weeks/months?
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EndersGame wrote:
Great to see this thread - we were also wondering whether aging the grapes was thematic.

I'm curious to hear from someone who knows more about real-life wine-making than I do (I'm pretty clueless about the process). How does this work in real life? i.e. how quickly are grapes normally crushed and turned into wine? Can they be stored at all? Or does the wine-making process have to happen fairly promptly after grapes are picked? Is this a matter of days/weeks/months?
Grapes are crushed pretty much immediately after being harvested. Crush is the craziest season for wineries. "Crush" being the weeks long season when grapes are harvested and crushed.

You can smell it for miles around. It's a wonderful slightly sour fruit smell that wafts through the grape growing valleys.
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Duccio Torzuoli
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Sometimes (but only sometimes and not every time I play, depending of the group I'm playing with), I apply the HR of aging the grapes in the other direction, downgrading all of them -1 from their value at the end of the year. It seems to work fine as well, also thematically could be correct.
I own the Essential Edition.

 
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James Cheng
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cruccio wrote:
Sometimes (but only sometimes and not every time I play, depending of the group I'm playing with), I apply the HR of aging the grapes in the other direction, downgrading all of them -1 from their value at the end of the year. It seems to work fine as well, also thematically could be correct.
I own the Essential Edition.

This would simply prolong the game and encourage people to harvest as late as possible, so I don't see the appeal. Plus you can almost never have a grape that is 4+ unless you get lucky with your vine card draw.

How long does a game where grape aged realistically last?
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Glaucio Siqueira
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I love viticulture, especially with the Tuscany expansion; But the unthematic wine making part does kind of bother me. Maybe instead of the actions harvest grapes (and storing them in crush pads) and making wine (transfering them to cellars), it could be Making wine (storing them in barrels and/or tanks) and then bottling the wine (thus making them ready for sale). This way, they could age in both. Something should be done about the mixing red and white grapes to make blush too...
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Jamey Stegmaier
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One of the common ways to make blush wine is by mixing red and white grapes.

As for grapes aging, sometimes we have to make an unthematic choice for a game to be fun. We tested the game the other way, and it wasn't fun. Glaucio, your solution is clever and would work fine (it's just a few years too late to make a change like that ).
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Morten Monrad Pedersen
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jameystegmaier wrote:
Glaucio, your solution is clever and would work fine (it's just a few years too late to make a change like that ).
Yeah, it's a really clever idea.

Jamey, we need a new Viticulture: Essential and Extra Thematic Edition .
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Kyle Dougherty
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Played this game for the first time last night with my wife. Loved it, although this was my first question too. Love this thread. We are now going to imagine that the crush pad is actually 'barrels' and the crush action is really 'bottling'. Which means that the poor guy doing the 'harvest' action is punching well above his weight. gulp

(And the lucky guy doing the 'bottling' has it pretty cruisy.)
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